bendy cap irons
- Thread starter nabs
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Paddy Roxburgh
Established Member
Isn't it in the constitution that citizens are entitled (expected?) to ignore all machine safety? Anything else would be un-American crazy European communism, beware, that road leads to gun control and free health care.
Define free 
I think I'd prefer our health care here as long as you can pay, yours if you can't afford it. Pretty indifferent about the guns, though. Despite the news fascination, at street level in the burbs, you don't see too much conflict!!
Just don't make us get a license to use a chainsaw! I'd hate that! One of the modern man's pleasures is working a good-running Swedish saw once in a while without having a license. Used to be peeing outside, too, but that seems to be discouraged as rednecky these days!!
(re that grinder, it's got an umbrella-ish shaped shield on the inside. If you stay to the left of the wheel a little, no problem).
I think I'd prefer our health care here as long as you can pay, yours if you can't afford it. Pretty indifferent about the guns, though. Despite the news fascination, at street level in the burbs, you don't see too much conflict!!Just don't make us get a license to use a chainsaw! I'd hate that! One of the modern man's pleasures is working a good-running Swedish saw once in a while without having a license. Used to be peeing outside, too, but that seems to be discouraged as rednecky these days!!
(re that grinder, it's got an umbrella-ish shaped shield on the inside. If you stay to the left of the wheel a little, no problem).
custard
Established Member
Here's a question that may relate to bendy cap irons.
Take two planes, a 1950's Record and a modern Lie Nielsen.
Both Bailey designs and both deliver great results. However, in almost every case the Lie Nielsen iron can be advanced and retracted much more smoothly and with less effort. No difference in terms of shavings or surface finish, but when adjusting the shaving thickness on the fly (as I do all the time) the LN has the advantage. I'm not talking about backlash here, just the smoothness of operation.
Why is that?
Maybe it's the shape of the cap iron, the LN has no hump?
Or maybe it's because with LN both the frog and lever cap are gunmetal not steel, could that possibly make a difference?
Or maybe it's something else entirely?
Over the years I've tried eliminating as many other variables as I can, flattening and lubricating the frog, lubricating the mechanism, adjusting the lever pressure, polishing and waxing the sliding surfaces of the iron and cap iron. I've even tried a substitute Y-lever, but I can never seem to match LN's silky smoothness..
I don't want to start a war about LN versus Stanley/Record. As I said, in almost all practical applications I don't believe there's any real difference between them. I can't tell a Record shaving from an LN shaving or a Stanley shaving, but in the specific area of advancing and retracting the iron, LN wins almost every time. But why is that so?
Take two planes, a 1950's Record and a modern Lie Nielsen.
Both Bailey designs and both deliver great results. However, in almost every case the Lie Nielsen iron can be advanced and retracted much more smoothly and with less effort. No difference in terms of shavings or surface finish, but when adjusting the shaving thickness on the fly (as I do all the time) the LN has the advantage. I'm not talking about backlash here, just the smoothness of operation.
Why is that?
Maybe it's the shape of the cap iron, the LN has no hump?
Or maybe it's because with LN both the frog and lever cap are gunmetal not steel, could that possibly make a difference?
Or maybe it's something else entirely?
Over the years I've tried eliminating as many other variables as I can, flattening and lubricating the frog, lubricating the mechanism, adjusting the lever pressure, polishing and waxing the sliding surfaces of the iron and cap iron. I've even tried a substitute Y-lever, but I can never seem to match LN's silky smoothness..
I don't want to start a war about LN versus Stanley/Record. As I said, in almost all practical applications I don't believe there's any real difference between them. I can't tell a Record shaving from an LN shaving or a Stanley shaving, but in the specific area of advancing and retracting the iron, LN wins almost every time. But why is that so?
Attachments
I believe the thread pitch is finer on the LN, but I've never checked to see by how much. It could be:
* the quality of the machining on the screw, or the freshness of it (the screw on the adjuster wheel)
* the manganese bronze (as you say). I've heard the term "self lubricating" for that before
* the cleanliness of the machining, and the lack of spring on the cap iron setup
I'm assuming it's the cleanliness of everything on the plane, but perhaps more of it is due to the screw pitch than I think. They do have quite a nice action.
I have noticed a great deal of difference on the vintage planes I've had, and always assumed (maybe errantly) that any that I have that are a bit on the coarse side are due to accumulated trash or burrs that have existed since new. I'd always assumed that if I kept them long enough and used them enough, they'd eventually be smooth. But I have kept only one stanley 4 and one record 4, so I don't know if that would be true.
The 70s stanley 4 that I have (surprisingly) adjusts about as smoothly as LN, but faster (due to the thread pitch) and with more runout (which I've come to not notice). It adjusts better than any vintage stanley that I've ever had, but it doesn't have that solid one-piece feel in use that the LN does due to less weight, and a lateral adjuster that can move around a little and give the feel that something is loose on it.
One question, I see you didn't mention the lever cap. Is there any burr or coarse machining on the underside of the record lever cap where it meets the cap iron hump? Have you tried switching the LN iron set into the record to see if it makes a difference, or even just the cap iron?
* the quality of the machining on the screw, or the freshness of it (the screw on the adjuster wheel)
* the manganese bronze (as you say). I've heard the term "self lubricating" for that before
* the cleanliness of the machining, and the lack of spring on the cap iron setup
I'm assuming it's the cleanliness of everything on the plane, but perhaps more of it is due to the screw pitch than I think. They do have quite a nice action.
I have noticed a great deal of difference on the vintage planes I've had, and always assumed (maybe errantly) that any that I have that are a bit on the coarse side are due to accumulated trash or burrs that have existed since new. I'd always assumed that if I kept them long enough and used them enough, they'd eventually be smooth. But I have kept only one stanley 4 and one record 4, so I don't know if that would be true.
The 70s stanley 4 that I have (surprisingly) adjusts about as smoothly as LN, but faster (due to the thread pitch) and with more runout (which I've come to not notice). It adjusts better than any vintage stanley that I've ever had, but it doesn't have that solid one-piece feel in use that the LN does due to less weight, and a lateral adjuster that can move around a little and give the feel that something is loose on it.
One question, I see you didn't mention the lever cap. Is there any burr or coarse machining on the underside of the record lever cap where it meets the cap iron hump? Have you tried switching the LN iron set into the record to see if it makes a difference, or even just the cap iron?
Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
Another small difference between the Record and the LN is the mass of the brass adjuster knob - LN being probably several times heavier than the Record - I don't know if the inertia of it contributes anything to the sensation of smoothness when twiddling it! Cheers, W2S
richarddownunder
Established Member
D_W":tlsj7zii said:Define free
Just don't make us get a license to use a chainsaw! I'd hate that! One of the modern man's pleasures is working a good-running Swedish saw once in a while without having a license. Used to be peeing outside, too, but that seems to be discouraged as rednecky these days!!
(re that grinder, it's got an umbrella-ish shaped shield on the inside. If you stay to the left of the wheel a little, no problem).
Yea, just thought I'd mention it as young impressionable fellas like me ( :lol: ) watching you tube might get the wrong idea and we have only got one set of eyes. I realise that guards, riving knives and the like are prohibited in the US by some ammendment or other. Who needs a licence for a chainsaw??
I forgot you're down on the other side of the world, and your guys like bulldozers, chainsaws and precarious situations quite a lot in some cases (maybe not the folks in Auckland or Christchurch, but the guys who live out in the weeds).
I think the English folks require some kind of training to use a chainsaw, right?
As someone who has ended up under a tree in my youth (and suffered a broken leg because of it), and who had a great uncle who died from a kickback (though he was a legitimate woodsman ,and this happened before PPE was necessarily a thing) I can say with near certainty as a citizen of the states that there is no reason for any safety measures around a chainsaw. (hammer)
I think the English folks require some kind of training to use a chainsaw, right?
As someone who has ended up under a tree in my youth (and suffered a broken leg because of it), and who had a great uncle who died from a kickback (though he was a legitimate woodsman ,and this happened before PPE was necessarily a thing) I can say with near certainty as a citizen of the states that there is no reason for any safety measures around a chainsaw. (hammer)
richarddownunder
Established Member
Well, I'm 'in the weeds' so to speek, or on the fringe of the weeds, and use a chainsaw often enough to be fairly proficient but not often enough to not be scared to death by it...consequently I have all the safety gear. Of course that PPE wont stop a gum tree falling on top of me! Sorry to hear about your uncle!D_W":1csser9w said:I forgot you're down on the other side of the world, and your guys like bulldozers, chainsaws and precarious situations quite a lot in some cases (maybe not the folks in Auckland or Christchurch, but the guys who live out in the weeds).
I think the English folks require some kind of training to use a chainsaw, right?
As someone who has ended up under a tree in my youth (and suffered a broken leg because of it), and who had a great uncle who died from a kickback (though he was a legitimate woodsman ,and this happened before PPE was necessarily a thing) I can say with near certainty as a citizen of the states that there is no reason for any safety measures around a chainsaw. (hammer)
cheers
Richard
Paddy Roxburgh
Established Member
AFAIK in the UK a chainsaw ticket (licence) is only required if it is commercial use. There's a guy at my boat yard who is a tree surgeon, any chainsaw work I get him to do, I never touch the things.
Paddy
Paddy
Both my LNs, one bronze and one iron, have the Bailey style CB and adjustment is a lot smoother than any Stanley/Record I own. I did try the newer LN CB with a 45 degree bevel honed on it but found no advantage. That said a Record #6 I bought from Ray Iles runs them a pretty close second and feels almost as "tight". Problems I have encountered on Record/Stanleys have been badly machined frog faces, CB hump not symmetrical, rough under side on the lever cap and a lever cap that was about 1/4" longer so it overhung the CB hump, ignoring all the usual wear and tear. All easily corrected but the last one had me stumped for a while. That said they will all do the job it is just the quality of engineering of the LN is a magnitude better than Stanley/Record at a price.
Similar threads
