Beginners' courses

[Jacob]

I just spotted this https://onlinestore.ntu.ac.uk/short-cou ... g-workshop
Sounds OK but I don't know any more about it. Not cheap!
It's appalling how much training and education is now only for those who can afford it.

 

[Doug71]

It sounds like a bit too much packed in to a short course, especially for a beginner.

 

[Mike Jordan]

I make that 25 hours of instruction in total ( assuming a break is taken for lunch)
In that time a complete beginner gets a thorough understanding? Total nonsense. If the students are that bright they can work out the cost of a coffee table and a good text book.
£6525 for five short days of work! I think we should think of trying this Jacob.

 

[Jacob]

I make that 25 hours of instruction in total ( assuming a break is taken for lunch)
In that time a complete beginner gets a thorough understanding? Total nonsense. If the students are that bright they can work out the cost of a coffee table and a good text book.
£6525 for five short days of work! I think we should think of trying this Jacob.

Right!
The short course I did all those years ago was 1000 hours (6 months full time) with a weekly living allowance plus a top up for a year whilst you got sorted out self-employed. Times have changed!
These expensive courses are for people can afford them and hence presumably don't need to go out and and make a living from them (in most cases I guess). What a waste?

 

[Deadeye]

I make that 25 hours of instruction in total ( assuming a break is taken for lunch)
In that time a complete beginner gets a thorough understanding? Total nonsense. If the students are that bright they can work out the cost of a coffee table and a good text book.
£6525 for five short days of work! I think we should think of trying this Jacob.

Um, I think it's £725?

 

[fezman]

Not sure on your working out there Mike. It is £725 for the 5 days in total whether you do it in a single week, or 5 Saturdays.

I doubt anyone could get a thorough understanding in that time, but maybe an introduction to it.

 

[MikeG.]

I make that 25 hours of instruction in total ( assuming a break is taken for lunch)
In that time a complete beginner gets a thorough understanding? Total nonsense. If the students are that bright they can work out the cost of a coffee table and a good text book.
£6525 for five short days of work! I think we should think of trying this Jacob.

Bloody hell! I'd happily give someone 25 hours of individual tuition in my workshop for 10% of that.

 

[Jacob]

I make that 25 hours of instruction in total ( assuming a break is taken for lunch)
In that time a complete beginner gets a thorough understanding? Total nonsense. If the students are that bright they can work out the cost of a coffee table and a good text book.
£6525 for five short days of work! I think we should think of trying this Jacob.

Um, I think it's £725?

times 9 - the number of people on the course.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I make that 25 hours of instruction in total ( assuming a break is taken for lunch)
In that time a complete beginner gets a thorough understanding? Total nonsense. If the students are that bright they can work out the cost of a coffee table and a good text book.
£6525 for five short days of work! I think we should think of trying this Jacob.

Um, I think it's £725?

x 9.

 

[Mike Jordan]

I had assumed that the full quota of nine students on the course as clearly indicated, when engaged in a rip off think big.

 

[Racers]

I know the chap who runs the course and work at the university where its done.

You have the resources of a full workshop and award winning tutor, the price isn't bad, some chair making courses are nearly the same price and all you get is a tent in the woods!
So lighting, heating, insurance, consumables, overtime for the staff it all adds up.

Pete

 

[Mike Jordan]

I'm sure they have overheads, but £261 per hour ! Einstein would work for less.

 

[AJB Temple]

Actually Einstein would not work for less these days. Charge out rates for senior lawyers, accountants, surgeons, advisory scientists and so on are miles in excess of this (multiples). I don't think that £145 a day per student in a professional workshop with proper facilities, insurance, tuition and so on is a crazy price and if it gets people enthused and up the learning curve a bit, then that is good.

 

[Jacob]

Actually Einstein would not work for less these days. Charge out rates for senior lawyers, accountants, surgeons, advisory scientists and so on are miles in excess of this (multiples). I don't think that £145 a day per student in a professional workshop with proper facilities, insurance, tuition and so on is a crazy price and if it gets people enthused and up the learning curve a bit, then that is good.

But it is a crazy price if you are unemployed, in need of a job and looking at woodwork as a possibility. As a luxury commodity for those well off enough to pay for it, it is probably OK.

 

[--Tom--]

There will be cheaper training if you look for it. I’m on the train to my evening welding course at the moment, full NVQ over an academic year for £600 paid in instalments over the year. There are further subsidies available for people on a means tested basis. I travel an hour each way, first on the train for £6 return and cycling.

The cost to deliver the course in a fully equipped fabrication workshop along with consumables outstrips this. The cost is made up for by Welsh government subsidies to education.

£150 a day for a woodwork course, making a piece and learning as you go is a fair price if it isn’t subsidised. This is more to the point of making training accessible, and if I wanted to I could do an NVQ in “wood trades” Or whatever they’re calling it for a similar cost to my welding NVQ.

If you look at other comparable as though people will spend that on a week in centre parks, why not a week in a workshop?

 

[--Tom--]

Just checked- they offered paid apprenticeships in carpentry so you can learn, get paid, and get help into work

https://www.coleggwent.ac.uk/learning/apprenticeships

This is what I’d be looking at if I was unemployed and wanted a new profession

 

[Terry - Somerset]

£145 a day for a fully resourced course (materials, machinery, workshop etc etc) is a reasonable rate - actually rather cheap compared to other specialist training without the overheads in a woodorking course. Whether 5 days is enough I seriously doubt.

I would be delighted if as a tutor I could earn £6k+ a week - although after expenses it may be reduced to "just" £3-4k. Most weeks you may struggle to get a full complement of students, and you are unlikely to run a course every week!

I accept that many may have problems getting £700 together for the 5 day course. There are still some local authority funded courses - woodwork, furniture making etc - which are both longer duration and a lot cheaper. Depending on circumstances you may qualify for financial support.

 

[marcros]

The whole opening post is just a thinly veiled political rant.

 

[Jacob]

The whole opening post is just a thinly veiled political rant.

No it isn't. People keep asking about courses and I just happened to have spotted that one and thought it might be helpful.
Then I saw the price in small print!

 

[Mike Jordan]

It seems that we can agree that the course is expensive and unlikely to be of interest or of much value to prospective career woodworkers, apprenticeships or free college courses are available together with evening classes. Could it be that the University which must exist in a harsh commercial world is interested in persons of high net worth from further afield who, during the five weeks course may discover other areas of learning to their taste and wish to study long term.