Bandsaw Recommendation for Wood Ripping

[tibi]

Please have a look at the Record Power bandsaw range. Well within your price range
and (IMHO) reliable and will hack your 2" boards - allow for in/outfeed support thingys if you're dealing with long boards.

Thank you Dave,

I will take a look if they have a reseller in Europe (also I need European plug for 240V)

Edit: I have found that they can be bought from Poland. Mini BandSaw Sabre 250 for 515 Eur. That is a reasonable price for a quality band saw. Max depth of cut 127 mm. The one level higher is Sabre 350 for 1500 Eur and depth of cut is 285 mm, what is max. what I would ever need.

I need to figure out what my needs are in terms of ripping and resawing and then I will act accordingly. But thanks for mentioning a reliable brand.

 

[pe2dave]

Do! Sorry @tibi - I didn't look at your location. Email them and ask? Their support is very good.

 

[Ttrees]

VFD's don't mind what shape plug your 240v has!
You could get two much better machines for the price of that 350mm saw.
Here's this weeks Irish bandsaws for cheap, seen another tidier looking Meber add just taken down for 600 which was there for a bit.

Fair enough these are not 20" machines, and are as rough as a badgers ar5e,
Those 20" machines often cost a bit more due to handy size, but not always.
Their going too, but not for a bargain.
Just mentioning what you can get if willing to go three phase, as long as you can see 240v on the motor nameplate, see D(delta) or a triangle beside 240 volts, then you've got a motor which can be used with household plug, most Italian machines this size have something like 3hp/2.2kw motors
I wouldn't want for more.
Adjustable ramp up time is nice on parts, and supply, compared to 2hp max on single phase due to the start up.
I must take some readings of my machine soon, we just got a new digital meter recently, be a good excuse to have a look at it.
Last I looked, it was using the same amount of juice as me auld laptop.
(euro's)

 

[Bojam]

You could get two much better machines for the price of that 350mm saw.

Tom, you seem to missed Tibi's original post where he stated that he didn't have space for a large industrial saw. Also not everyone wants to restore and maintain second-hand machines. You're right that there can be some bargains out there but whether these are appropriate depends very much on a person's preferences and constraints (space, time, patience, skillset, etc.).

 

[Ttrees]

Yes @Bojam but you can't get cheap, quiet, reliable and small in the same machine.
Your machine is a good example of what can be called compact, no different in footprint than a smaller one what's not just a scrollsaw.
I had a new 20" far Eastern machine for a wee while

No larger in footprint to this 315 which is pants

Suppose you can make any saw appear huge though, especially if you're looking at one on a pallet.

Fair enough, the Italian machines...well the 20" ones, aren't so compact, but if a bargain 18 or 20" machine comes up then is say a few inches much of a concern?
Not talking about ubiquitous commonly found Italian 600mm/24" wheeled machines,
that's a huge jump, an extra 100kgs consisting of much wider column, space around the wheels and extra table, not that behind the machine matters for anyone doing work,
it's the extra width included with above, i.e column against the wall which eats space
say if your workbench is the alongside it.

I was suggesting more compact but stout, ideally around a manageable 200kgs would be worth shooting for.
Whether space is that much of a concern to save an inch or two, I wouldn't think its worth passing up
on a bargain.
I could have posted shiny 20" machines up for 1000+ but those are overpriced,
More often than not extremely clean Italian or Italian like three phase machines crop up,
say something like a Hammer n4400 for less than a grand which would likely do nicely.
Bit more difficult to find such a bargain with single phase newer stuff.

 

[pe2dave]

"if a bargain 18 or 20" machine comes up then is say a few inches much of a concern?" Yes, if there is no room, or no 3phase?

 

[Bojam]

"if a bargain 18 or 20" machine comes up then is say a few inches much of a concern?" Yes, if there is no room, or no 3phase?

Exactly this. My machine is, as Tom says, "compact". The footprint isn't small but certainly isn't as big as some of the 18 or 20" saws. It is also smaller height wise. I couldn't fit a larger saw into my small workshop. Period. So yes a few inches can make all the difference. And I don't have a 3 phase supply. Whether the OP does or not is unknown.

There also seems to be some straw man type arguments here about noise. How quiet a given saw is is relative. A well calibrated bandsaw of any size should be reasonably quiet but it will make noise. How much noise you find acceptable/tolerable is a matter of personal preference. At no point did the OP mention needing a quiet saw so I'm not sure why this is an important consideration per se.

Cost is also relative. You can find cheap used bandsaws. But you also need to factor in the work (time) required to get them running sweetly. Depending on the condition this might not be much but do you have the prior knowledge to assess a used machine? You might end up buying a machine with issues that needs lots of work (and money) thrown at it. You might be skilled mechanically and relish the challenge. Or you might just prefer to buy a brand new saw that works with minimal calibration straight out of the box (as mine did). And has a warranty (5 years in the case of Record Power machines) in case anything goes wrong.

Tom - how much time and money have you thrown at getting your saw running the way you want? Is it finished yet? I'm not trying to be argumentative. But I think you need to recognise that buying big old "industrial" saws in need of a fair amount of TLC is a project that doesn't suit everyone.

 

[isaac3d]

You need a big saw for straight ripping even 2" thick stuff. Forget small and cheap!
Circular saw much better except for depth of cut. Can do deep cuts from opposite sides and take out the middle with a hand rip saw or a smaller band saw - the circular saw cuts help guide the blade.

Jacob is right; if you are only ripping 50mm thick material then a decent table saw is a better investment than a cheap bandsaw. A cheap bandsaw might be useful for small work with curved cuts.
The Record Power Sabre 350 band saw has been mentioned above. Whilst this has some irritations not found in the very expensive models, I can rip logs/boards up to the full 11 inch clearance with the right blade (3tpi skip, 3/4 inch) or rip 1mm thick veneer sheets off of boards several inches wide by using a finer toothed blade; plus I can also do all those fine curved cuts with a narrow blade. I got my Sabre 350 for 1000 quid a while back; they will be a bit more now. I can also recommend getting the extension table if you are ripping long pieces; maybe even a separate outfeed table would be useful.

 

[tibi]

"if a bargain 18 or 20" machine comes up then is say a few inches much of a concern?" Yes, if there is no room, or no 3phase?

I do not have 3 phase outlets and I would need to dig a trench of 50 m from the house mains to get it to the garden workshop.

For a better illustration here is my workshop layout (workbench 2 is in production and I would like to add sharpening station grinder and a place for my stones). So you can see yourslelf how much spare space I have for a big bandsaw or tablesaw. I started building the workbench 2 before I inhereted workbench 1 and I do not want to sell workbench 2, because I want to keep it in case my son would like to work with me, once he is older (he is 2,5 now).
I do not want to keep the material out of the workshop, as inside there are better conditions and access.

 

[isaac3d]

That is a tight space. You are probably going to be restricted to a benchtop table saw or bandsaw rather than a floor-standing model. Just for your info, the Record Power Sabre 350 on a wheelbase needs just under 195cm height clearance and has a footprint of about 700x500mm excluding the annoying sticking out fence rail (which frequently adds to my collection of bruises) and any extension tables. From your diagram I don't see a space for a floor mounted table saw.
I work from a single car sized garage, so all my heavy machinery is on wheels and I have to play "move the machine" every day, like one of those sliding tile puzzles with just one free space. So, I feel your pain.

 

[tibi]

That is a tight space. You are probably going to be restricted to a benchtop table saw or bandsaw rather than a floor-standing model. Just for your info, the Record Power Sabre 350 on a wheelbase needs just under 195cm height clearance and has a footprint of about 700x500mm excluding the annoying sticking out fence rail (which frequently adds to my collection of bruises) and any extension tables. From your diagram I don't see a space for a floor mounted table saw.
I work from a single car sized garage, so all my heavy machinery is on wheels and I have to play "move the machine" every day, like one of those sliding tile puzzles with just one free space. So, I feel your pain.

I could not built a bigger workshop due to the garden space restrictions, so that is why I use mostly hand tools, as they do not need so much space as stationary power tools.

The most used board thickness that I will need to rip will be 1 1/4", so maybe I will finally decide to stick to a handsaw anyway. 2" will be rarer as I complete the second workbench.

 

[heimlaga]

My experience is that a blade less than 25mm wide is pretty much useless for ripping and resawing because it is just not stiff enough to saw anywhere near straight when subjected to a reasonable amount of feed pressure.
To run such a blade you need a very solid frame and. According to most books and product information I have seen you need wheels at least 24" in diametre if you don't want the blade to break prematurely because of metal fatigue.

You can indeed both rip and resaw with any 12mm blade or even narrower but to make such a blade cut straight you must feed so slowly that a good rip filed handsaw will appear as a wonder of efficiency.

 

[Ttrees]

Exactly this. My machine is, as Tom says, "compact". The footprint isn't small but certainly isn't as big as some of the 18 or 20" saws. It is also smaller height wise. I couldn't fit a larger saw into my small workshop. Period. So yes a few inches can make all the difference. And I don't have a 3 phase supply. Whether the OP does or not is unknown.

There also seems to be some straw man type arguments here about noise. How quiet a given saw is is relative. A well calibrated bandsaw of any size should be reasonably quiet but it will make noise. How much noise you find acceptable/tolerable is a matter of personal preference. At no point did the OP mention needing a quiet saw so I'm not sure why this is an important consideration per se.

Cost is also relative. You can find cheap used bandsaws. But you also need to factor in the work (time) required to get them running sweetly. Depending on the condition this might not be much but do you have the prior knowledge to assess a used machine? You might end up buying a machine with issues that needs lots of work (and money) thrown at it. You might be skilled mechanically and relish the challenge. Or you might just prefer to buy a brand new saw that works with minimal calibration straight out of the box (as mine did). And has a warranty (5 years in the case of Record Power machines) in case anything goes wrong.

Tom - how much time and money have you thrown at getting your saw running the way you want? Is it finished yet? I'm not trying to be argumentative. But I think you need to recognise that buying big old "industrial" saws in need of a fair amount of TLC is a project that doesn't suit everyone.

Aye that's why I was suggesting something like the n4400 or something Italian in the 18" ish range
or a compact 20" machine.
You are correct about the footprint, look at the column on this Italian Meber compared to the new thing I had, which had all sorts of issues.
There are other compact premium machines to be had on the bay at least, headroom may be the deal breaker there.

There was mention of hand tools and another reference to noise regarding the tablesaw comment
about one being noisier.
Agreed about noise being personal preference, but there is a difference with an sturdy machine which has flat tires, for someone who is looking to rip all their timber.
This is important to me that I can use a bandsaw anytime of the day.

I should have been more specific and suggested that basically brand new machines can be had, for not much more than those rough ones and was only posting those as a guide.
Fair enough I could have mentioned seeing them running beforehand.

Another point you make is whatever will work out of the box.
That can take time, or it might not...
and your comment is back at ya about assessment of the machine.
I had a battle to prove that my saw was a lemon, it took a lot of effort,
and with corners getting cut all the time, how can you prove that your bandsaw wheels or whatever is within tolerance, should a company decide to lump you with the Friday evening special.

My saw had taken some time, but I'm a flake and very much into furthering my arsenal of bodgery.
I value the skills needed to do this kind of malarkey, and documented some stuff very well,
like dressing bandsaw tires (flat tires) should one find tires needing work, things like that.
That's just me, I wasn't saying to go out and buy the cheapest thing going.

And the three phase "dilemma" is solved, with a hundred quid VFD to run from a household plug.
Infact I went specifically out of my way to find a three phase machine (with dual voltage motor) and thanks to those who are into bandsaws and documented such, was able to find out the motor was dual voltage.
This means I can tailor my machine to my supply, simply adding a second to the ramp up time if things were struggling.
I had a 5 amp fuse in my extension lead for 6 months or so!

And I think I mentioned already, with a 13a household plug you would be restricted to 2hp with a single phase motor compared to using a 3hp 3 phase motor with VFD/inverter.
Yes you can get 18" to 20" 3 phase machines in this range, and will likely stand a chance of being priced accordingly.

Just mentioning again, used is half the cost of new, and three phase half the cost of that again.
Same money getting something decent and for a little noisy machine.

I can't see why someone into hand tool woodworking for the most part wouldn't value a suitable floor standing bandsaw, much more than any universal motor, non lifetime tool.

Get rid of the planer and get better using a hand plane, lol
or just make the planer or whatever tool which sounds like it has preference more mobile instead,
and stick the bandsaw against the wall for most of the time personally.

Tom

 

[Bojam]

Another point you make is whatever will work out of the box.
That can take time, or it might not...
and your comment is back at ya about assessment of the machine.
I had a battle to prove that my saw was a lemon, it took a lot of effort,
and with corners getting cut all the time, how can you prove that your bandsaw wheels or whatever is within tolerance, should a company decide to lump you with the Friday evening special.

Hi Tom. Truth is I can't "prove" that the wheels or whatever are "within tolerance". However defined. But tbh what matters to me is that it cuts straight and true. And it does. So I'm not going to spend the time messing with it when there's no need. Ultimately it's a tool to get a job done. If a brand new saw doesn't perform properly then send it back. It's what the warranty is for.

My saw had taken some time, but I'm a flake and very much into furthering my arsenal of bodgery.
I value the skills needed to do this kind of malarkey, and documented some stuff very well,
like dressing bandsaw tires (flat tires) should one find tires needing work, things like that.

I do agree that the skills learned in the process you've gone through with your saw are valuable. I just wouldn't personally go out actively looking for that when what I need is a bandsaw that will cut straight, cut curves, reliably, without fuss. Hats off to you for perservering with the refurbishment of your saw. I hope it all pays off. I just don't have the time or inclination to go down that path.

I can't see why someone into hand tool woodworking for the most part wouldn't value a suitable floor standing bandsaw, much more than any universal motor, non lifetime tool.
Get rid of the planer and get better using a hand plane, lol
or just make the planer or whatever tool which sounds like it has preference more mobile instead,
and stick the bandsaw against the wall for most of the time personally.

Yes but space is a real (not imagined) issue. The OP may well want a big floorstanding bandsaw to last a lifetime. But the workshop space imposes constraints. Fitting a floorstanding bandsaw in the layout shown in the diagram would require getting rid of one of the workbenches (which he says he doesn't want to do) or ditching storage racks. It would need to go in the centre of one of the walls to maximise infeed/outfeed. You wouldn't want to wheeling an 18/20" saw out everytime you want to use it. Given the layout I think even the smallish (14") Sabre 350 would be difficult to accommodate. But the 10" Sabre 250 could be an option as it is a benchtop model. No issues ripping 50mm thick stock with that saw as long as it is properly calibrated, the blade is sharp and the feed rate is kept reasonable.

 

[Ttrees]

I can't argue with you there, but if looking for a bandsaw for ripping and the likes,
not just one or two very fancy boxes, I can see it worth the time then to deal with ripping
with a wee curve cutter saw.
For me a floor standing bandsaw, a bench or two, pillar drill, press or two,
sharpening station of some sort would certainly be my first priority, and maybe find somewhere else to put any clutter.
Maybe I'm a bit of a Neanderthal, but would rather use a rip or frame saw compared for prepping stock if I were intending to be making more than a box or two.

Tom

 

[Bojam]

My experience is that a blade less than 25mm wide is pretty much useless for ripping and resawing because it is just nu stiff enough to saw anywhere near straight when subjected to a reasonable amount of feed pressure.
To run such a blade you need a very solid frame and. According to most books and product information I have seen you need wheels at least 24" in diametre if you don't want the blade to break prematurely because of metal fatigue.

You can indeed both rip and resaw with any 12mm blade or even narrower but to make such a blade cut straight you must feed so slowly that a good rip filed handsaw will appear as a wonder of efficiency.

I rip and resaw tropical hardwoods using a 17" (wheel Ø) bandsaw, 1.5KW motor, with a 3/4" (20mm) M42 bimetal blade. It works great, straight and true. I take care with feed rate, slower for thicker stock of course, but I don't find it really slow at all. Certainly much faster than attempting to do it with a handsaw. No blades broken yet.

 

[tibi]

Based on what I have read here, I would be better to stick to a hand saw in my space. When I buy lumber, I usually get raw boards (with live edges) that are 30 - 40 cm wide and 3 m long. I take them to the garden and on the sawhorses I use circular hand saw to cut them straight into more managable boards and remove live edges and bark. Then I take them in the shop for drying. I still can rip them with circular hand saw, if I need to make a 2m+ long cut. I also want to build myself 2 sawbenches as ripping at the waist level is difficult on the sawhorses.

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

If you do not have money for a new saw. You could look for a second hand INCA or Kitty. Both no longer made- but so well made - that they will do exactly what you need. My first secondhand bandsaw was an Electra Beckum, terrible saw. I then picked up an INCA for 150 Euro but it needed a replacement motor. An INCA in good condition sells for between 150 and 300 Euro. Although it is a small saw it has a maximum depth of 16cm and with a 3 tooth per inch saw it manages that depth without wandering. You just need to take your time and buy a top quality blade. The kitty saw also has an enviable reputation and is similar in size but I have never used one. Oh yes and watch the Snodgrass tutorial on how to set up the blade.

 

[pe2dave]

Based on what I have read here, I would be better to stick to a hand saw in my space. When I buy lumber, I usually get raw boards (with live edges) that are 30 - 40 cm wide and 3 m long. I take them to the garden and on the sawhorses I use circular hand saw to cut them straight into more managable boards and remove live edges and bark. Then I take them in the shop for drying. I still can rip them with circular hand saw, if I need to make a 2m+ long cut. I also want to build myself 2 sawbenches as ripping at the waist level is difficult on the sawhorses.

Had you considered a track saw? It seems a good compromise? Use outside on trestles, far straighter than circular saw? Packs away smaller than any fixed saw?

 

[isaac3d]

My experience is that a blade less than 25mm wide is pretty much useless for ripping and resawing because it is just not stiff enough to saw anywhere near straight when subjected to a reasonable amount of feed pressure.
To run such a blade you need a very solid frame and. According to most books and product information I have seen you need wheels at least 24" in diametre if you don't want the blade to break prematurely because of metal fatigue.

You can indeed both rip and resaw with any 12mm blade or even narrower but to make such a blade cut straight you must feed so slowly that a good rip filed handsaw will appear as a wonder of efficiency.

Whilst I would love to have a bandsaw big enough to take a 1 inch or bigger blade (and to space to house it), I must disagree about needing a 1 inch blade for ripping and resawing accurately. Naturally, we can discuss how straight is "straight enough" and how fast is "fast enough" but I get by quite well ripping boards several inches wide and can peel veneers of 1mm thick with a bit of care. I guess if you are running a business it is worth investing in a large machine but for hobbyists (even keen ones), space and price are generally more limiting factors than time.