Bandsaw and PT advice

[SMALMALEKI]

Hi
I am going to list my tools and then ask the question. I have a small single garage as a workshop. Tools wise I have two combidrills, a jigsaw and circularsaw leftover from my loft boarding.
For my woodworking I built my own workbench and a Moxon vise.
I have some clamps( never enough clamps for any woodworker)
Two mortise chisels and set of Aldi chisels with another set of Rutlands chisel sets.
Number 4,4.5,5 and n7 planes with a no71 router plane.
Marking and measuring devices including mortise gauge and marking gauge, three squares and few metal rulers.
I have a dovetail saw, a tenon saw , two hand saws which one of them is filed to rip cut.
I also have some sharpening tools and honing guide.

I bought a table saw which is just been unboxed but never used. ( I don’t even know why did I buy it).

I have been getting an urge to buy a band saw and planer thicknesser but so far either I have not found the right item or they were sold before I get to them.

My question is the need for those machines for a hand tool woodworker. As I said I have not even turned the switch of my table saw once. Having options available to rip cut the stocks to the size and using a TP to get all the pieces to same thickness are very appealing.


How necessary are those in your opinion?
Most of PT in the second hand market are Dewalt. What is the advantage of Dewalt 733 which is so dominant in the second hand market?

What would you advice me to choose ?

Regards

 

[sunnybob]

I had a bandsaw for 4 years before I got a tablesaw.
But if you are a hand tool worker then a bandsaw has limited use to you.
Mainly it would allow you to buy thicker planks and rip them to thinner sizes, assuming that would save you money.
I buy planks of hardwood that are up to 50 mm thick and 180 mm wide, then slice them on the bandsaw, which is something a table saw cant do. But that means having a large bandsaw (mine is a 350 size).

If you want to cut shapes, then a bandsaw is at its best.
If you want to cut long perfectly straight edges, thats when you need the tablesaw.
I am almost exclusively a power tool worker, due to arthritis, and mostly make small items but occasionally larger stuff so in order of must have machines I choose;
bandsaw,
router table,
thicknesser,
belt sander,
table saw (I have a mitre saw, but since buying the table saw rarely use it now).

 

[El Barto]

I’d say the vast majority of my woodworking is with hand tools but since buying an old, small and not particularly good bandsaw a couple of years ago I’ve found it totally invaluable. I use it all the time - it means I can get down to the fun stuff with hand tools more quickly.

 

[woodbloke66]

In a small shop for a predominantly hand tool woodworker, a small bandsaw IMO would be the most useful where deepish cuts and curves can be produced with ease. It also has a much smaller footprint than a tablesaw but I'd advise to get hold of a reasonable quality one; plenty out there - Rob

 

[custard]

The two most physically gruelling tasks in woodworking are ripping components and planing components to final thickness. A bandsaw and a lunchbox/bench top thicknesses removes the grunt work. Furthermore, they're not ruinously expensive and they don't take up a massive amount of space.

However, be aware that even though these two machines make woodworking easier, they don't make it any simpler. You'll still need reasonably high levels of hand tool skills if you're to produce anything that you'll be proud of.

 

[SMALMALEKI]

Thank you for all your opinions. So far all the stock I bought from timber yard have proven to be not true by any imagination. It might be down to the change in environment and effect of ripping and planing.
In a recent project there was such a cupping in the stock that I had to take 8 mm off the thickness to make it true. The next piece was flatten with 5 mm. So I had to take 3 mm more off the thickness of a true board to make it match but I decided to leave it as they were on opposite sides.
I have some stock left from previous projects but I can’t get them from 2 inches to 3/4 or 1/2 inch for what I am planning to make now.

I understand that those tools are for taking care of bulk of the job but hand tools skill needed to finish it to the standard I expect.

Is it acceptable to leave pieces slightly different in thickness or I have committed a major sin ?

 

[woodbloke66]

Is it acceptable to leave pieces slightly different in thickness or I have committed a major sin ?

As Custard has mentioned above, a bandsaw and thicknesser or even a p/t if you've got space, will remove all the heavy work from preparing timber.
I generally leave pieces slightly oversize and sneak up to the finished dimension in small steps which means you can then see how the wood's behaving before you finally get to the finished size. Even then, I leave it a half mm over size for final smoothing with a LA bevel up jack. Make sure though, what you do to one face is repeated on the opposite side; never machine/plane just one surface - Rob

 

[sunnybob]

By using a good bandsaw blade, and not pushing the work through too fast, you can rip a board and only lose the width of the blade and 1 mm either side for final smoothing.
from a 50 mm (2" approx) wide board I could get 3 pieces at least 13 mm wide, maybe 14 mm each if I really tried.
As far as different thicknesses on the same piece; does it matter on that particular piece?. If its for your own use, are YOU happy with it? If its for a customer, will they be happy with it?
If the answer to either question is NO, then you know what you have to do.
Thats all that counts.

 

[colinc]

Hi,

I would say that the day I bit the bullet and bought a bandsaw and a planer/thicknesser was the day I moved from being a diy-er and became a woodworker. Suddenly I could turn a lump of tree into an exactly dimensioned piece of wood.

I have managed until very recently without a table saw but although I find it offers ways of doing things faster, it hasn’t changed the nature of what I can do, just how I do it.

As you know, my original bandsaw was an Elektra Beckum 12” wheel model with a depth of cut around 160mm. I think that is a minimum to aim for or you will be disappointed. I just replaced it with a BS400.

My planer thicknesser is a Scheppach HMS260 with the pressed steel tables, not the later cast iron ones. I have no plans to change it as it does everything I need from aircraft wing spars to 3mm thick jewellery box bottoms. It’s rubber feed rollers are very gentle on the wood.

I think you ought to buy a planer/thicknesser rather than a thicknesser as the ability to quickly and accurately flatten a board and square it up is important. If I had space I would buy a narrow jointer to avoid having to change from planer to so often but I can live with that. I don’t think they are available new now but they do come up 2nd hand. I regularly use three, the other being an Axminster and a Kity, but mine is by far the best. I know boards can be flattened and squared by hand, but life is to short...

You know I’m feeling guilty about selling my bandsaw before you got chance to come and look, but if you want to try out the machines, you are very welcome.

Regards,

Colin

Edit: IMO the bandsaw is also a lot safer than the table saw.....

 

[user22161]

I bought Record BS300E and PT260 3+ years ago and both have worked faultlessly until I bust the PT260 at the weekend. Hadn't noticed a piece was wedge shaped and it jammed under the feed roller, busting the drive sprocket - my own fault. Phoned RP this morning, told not to worry, a new sprocket would be posted FOC under 5 year warranty. Excellent service and wonder how many other makes would have treated me so well.

 

[SMALMALEKI]

I have seen couple of different PT on the Facebook groups. Do they worth the money or are they another copy of cloned ones?

 

[colinc]

Hi,

Those are thicknessers, a PT is a planer/thicknesser. The planer part allows you to flatten boards and to machine straight, square edges. The alternative would be to have a thicknesser and a separate flat bed planer, sometimes called a jointer. Obviously, you can flatten a board by hand and plane it straight and square, but really life is too short for that. (In my opinion )

Regards,

Colin

 

[SMALMALEKI]

I always wondered how to flatten with these machines. But most of the manufacturers market them as Planer thicknesser.

Regards

 

[user22161]

Top one (Makita) is 110v so transformer needed. No idea what voltage the Craft is.

 

[SMALMALEKI]

The Marita one is sold. I missed out again.

 

[Trevanion]

PTs are always in high demand because they're an essential machine for doing woodworking (Unless you're some kind of neanderthal :wink they're the first machine besides a saw that wood will encounter. You've really got to be looking constantly for one and be very quick on the trigger when one pops up for sale, because if you're not someone else will be and it WILL sell. From what you've said about your workshop size ideally you need to be looking at something like a Dewalt 1150 or an Elektra Beckum HC260 or a similar sized machine, Nothing bigger as you don't really have the space for anything larger. They're not too expensive to pick up at around £300 but you do have to keep an eye out.

Bandsaws are easily the most versatile saw for a hobbist and hand tool (neanderthal :lol woodworker, they're far safer (but still dangerous) than a table saw and can do much more once you've become acquainted with it. The only drawback is that you don't get such crisp cut results as you get from a TS, so ready to glue edges and joints are hard to accomplish. Bandsaws are pretty plentiful and shouldn't break the bank to get a good one, I would say a 300mm wheel bandsaw is an ideal size for a hobbist but you could go bigger or smaller.

 

[scooby]

I quite enjoy flattening a face and jointing an edge by hand but wouldn't be without a thicknesser for anything. I got the Metabo one, think it was around £330 from D&m.
A bandsaw is something I've been meaning to get for a while but cant afford at the moment. I could afford a 10" but I think I'd be making a mistake not getting at least a 12".
I still look at my table saw and chop saw and wish there was a nice bandsaw there instead.

edit: forgot to mention, you can flatten using a thicknesser but its a bit of a faff. I tried it once and couldnt be pineappled doing it again. Its just as easy/less hassle to do it by hand if you dont go for a planer thicknesser.

 

[SMALMALEKI]

PTs are always in high demand because they're an essential machine for doing woodworking (Unless you're some kind of neanderthal :wink they're the first machine besides a saw that wood will encounter. You've really got to be looking constantly for one and be very quick on the trigger when one pops up for sale, because if you're not someone else will be and it WILL sell. From what you've said about your workshop size ideally you need to be looking at something like a Dewalt 1150 or an Elektra Beckum HC260 or a similar sized machine, Nothing bigger as you don't really have the space for anything larger. They're not too expensive to pick up at around £300 but you do have to keep an eye out.

Bandsaws are easily the most versatile saw for a hobbist and hand tool (neanderthal :lol woodworker, they're far safer (but still dangerous) than a table saw and can do much more once you've become acquainted with it. The only drawback is that you don't get such crisp cut results as you get from a TS, so ready to glue edges and joints are hard to accomplish. Bandsaws are pretty plentiful and shouldn't break the bank to get a good one, I would say a 300mm wheel bandsaw is an ideal size for a hobbist but you could go bigger or smaller.

Thank you for the opinion. Reminded me of one of my old bosses. Used to say if you use power tool and jugs you don’t need training. A monkey off the tree can do the cut.

 

[sunnybob]

Its those damn americans again, they make up their own names for stuff and because most utubers are yankee newbies come along and believe what they hear!
:roll: :roll:
Bench top thicknessers can be used for edge planing on smaller planks, but their primary use is getting rough sawn timber to the size you want.
I have the JET model. Its saves an enormous amount of hard work.
be warned, they are VERY noisy and produce huge amounts of waste!

 

[colinc]

Hi,

Did you change the picture? The white one at the top is a surface planer/jointer, not a thicknesser. You feed the wood over that to flatten it, not through it. That would be good in combination with a Thicknesser

There is currently an Elu planer/thicknesser for sale on Facebook mMarketplace for £220. It is in Hope Valley in the Peak District so not too far away.

Regards,

Colin