backsaw

[GEPPETTO]

Hi All,

Lately I have done me to take the hand, sincerely translated from a speaking way here, to buy hand tools.
I have just purchased a backsaw of which seller didnt' say much: Disston Canada back saw, 14" blade, 13 points per inch
Is it a dovetail or tenon saw ? What do I have to look at?

Cheers, Gabriele

 

[Midnight]

Ohhhhhh now that's a tasty looking piece of fighting steel Gabriele... I'm no expert but to me that looks like a tennon saw... No doubt you'll have some folk drooling over that one..

 

[GEPPETTO]

Ohhhhhh now that's a tasty looking piece of fighting steel Gabriele... I'm no expert but to me that looks like a tennon saw... No doubt you'll have some folk drooling over that one..

It seemed to me that dovetail saw has no set, or almost quite not existent, hasn't it, consequently tenon saw. I'll see when it'll arrive.

Cheers, Gabriele

 

[Evergreen]

Hi Gabriele

I agree that the long blade and the 13 teeth per inch mean that it's a tenon saw. A dovetail saw would be shorter, maybe 200-250mm, the blade would be only about 40-50mm wide and would have maybe 20 teeth per inch. I'm sorry to mix up metric and imperial measurement but in Britain, we seem to be stuck half way through the process of modernisation!

Anyway, you have a very good looking saw. I hope it cuts as beautifully as it looks.

Regards.

 

[MikeW]

Hi Gabriele,

Technically you have a Disston #4 Back-saw. What you choose to do with it is only a choice.

You might find it to be too tall and long for precise sawing of small joints. On the other hand, for sawing larger joints you may find it a treat. Large joints like lap, tenon, sliding dovetails and the like are suited for a heavier, longer saw.

The recommendation for a shorter saw in both height and length is a sound one. In addition, a small joinery saw also has a thinner blade, which has less resistance during cutting.

Take care, Mike

 

[GEPPETTO]

Hi Gabriele,

Technically you have a Disston #4 Back-saw. What you choose to do with it is only a choice.

You might find it to be too tall and long for precise sawing of small joints. On the other hand, for sawing larger joints you may find it a treat. Large joints like lap, tenon, sliding dovetails and the like are suited for a heavier, longer saw.

The recommendation for a shorter saw in both height and length is a sound one. In addition, a small joinery saw also has a thinner blade, which has less resistance during cutting.

Take care, Mike

Hi Mike,

I believed a tool had to be suited to a personal task and that each tools is born from the factory with a precise operation (perhaps I'm wrong), which should be always the same..
But, firstly what did this saw have been achieved for? From the factory I mean.

Cheers, Gabriele

 

[MikeW]

Hi Mike,

I believed a tool had to be suited to a personal task and that each tools is born from the factory with a precise operation (perhaps I'm wrong), which should be always the same..
But, firstly what did this saw have been achieved for? From the factory I mean.

Cheers, Gabriele

Hi Gabriele,

It is useful to have tools for dedicated tasks, it's just not always practical or possible.

A larger back-saw will cut smaller joints, with the limitations being the ability to control the cut and the joint size itself.

Small joinery saws are simply easier to control on smaller work is all. At least for most people. Too, there is the issue of how the saw is filed which may limit its use.

The saw you pointed to, the #4 back-saw, was intended for any work to which it is suited as determined by the user. If it is filed cross cut and if the fleam angle is small, it will rip nearly as well as cross cut. At least, well enough. Same with if it is filed rip, it will still cross cut and some advocate a rip being used in this manner.

For me, the issue is the depth of cut. It is easier for me to control a short rip cut such as on a dovetail or box joint if the blade is less tall and shorter. Too, I find a thinner blade takes less effort to control and cut a small joint. But if all I had was the saw in your post, I would refile it to make it cut well as a rip or a cross cut and use it that way until I had a smaller saw.

If one looks in text books on the subject, saws are designated for certain tasks based upon overall size and have the number and size of teeth corresponding to those tasks. However, as one goes back in time, one will find that in general, saws for each task generally had fewer teeth per inch than what we have become accustom to. Rip tenon saws having only 9 ppi for instance, which is my preference. Small joinery saws having 13-20 wasn't uncommon and the number of teeth being more indicative of the size/thickness of the boards being cut than merely their designation in the maker's books.

But they don't "have" to be used for a single purpose. If you have more than a single saw, then I would recommend having some for each task--the more the better <g>--but it is not an absolute necessity.

Take care, Mike

 

[Chris Knight]

I have the nice LN dovetail (rip cut) and carcase (cross cut) saws. When cutting D/Ts, I actually prefer to use the rip filed D/T saw for the crosscuts on the edge of the workpiece that has the tails, it just seems to be easier and more accurate - also much quicker.

I suspect that it has to do with the fact that the same saw has been in my hand for a while and I am used to it but it demonstrates that there is no hard and fast rule that dictates what a saw should be used for.

 

[Ulrich]

Hi Gabriele,

gratulations to this nice tenon saw. Just some days ago I purchased a similar one - a Disston #5 with brass back. It was not in such a good condition as yours:

But after a bit of work with steel wool, polishing paste and on the grip scraper and sandpaper and finally a touch up with oil and pastewax it is looking quite nice, I think:

Futher information on your #4 you can find here, too:

http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/backsawpage.html

Cheers

Ulrich