B&B (?) tools

[ED65]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who loves this about acquiring old tools, coming across brands you'd never heard of previously, often only discovered when you get home and start to clean it up. The last year has been especially good for this for me, with a half-dozen tools picked up with brand names that were new to me. It's especially good of course when they turn out to be quite decent quality, as this is.

Here are the stampings on my latest one, bought last Sunday. The brand stamp was light along the bottom edge and is now partially erased by an unfortunately placed patch of rust but in the flesh I'm pretty sure it says B&B:

I've done a search and didn't find anything so I think this might be the first mention of the brand.

Anyone heard of them before?

 

[ED65]

Before and after:

It looked in rough shape before and it was, although I have seen much worse that I've passed on as hopeless cases.

On this the ratchet was seized and the sweep handle was stuck fast but I've bought from the seller before and I knew I'd get it for peanuts so I thought it was worth trying to save it for only a Euro or two (eventually cost less than €1).

If the 1953 is a date stamp anyone have another brace of similar vintage that this is a clone of? There was no trace of any nickel plating left anywhere on this, whether that means it was all peeled off long ago or there never was any I can't tell but if I had to guess I'd say it was unplated.

 

[Bm101]

Sure you know this already Ed but just in case, that arrow is an MODefence/war office depending on date stamp maybe why it's unbranded? Might it be an army tool? Nice work as usual in breathing new life etc etc

 

[ED65]

Had forgotten what the arrow meant so thanks for the just-in-case!

 

[nabs]

Not entirely relevant, but I am reading Samuel Pepys' diaries (online at http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1660/01/) and as you know he went on to become an important administrator in the British navy. I'd always thought the 'broad arrow' was a stamp to identify naval equipment, and this post caused me to check. It seems, in fact, to be a more general marker indicating goods owned by the crown. Here is an entry from Calendar of State Papers, Domestic Series, of the Reign of Charles II -1670 and another mentioning Pepys in 1666:

 

[cowfoot]

The broad arrow was used to mark trees, too -

http://www.nelma.org/lagniappe/kings-br ... w-and-ewp/

 

[Boringgeoff]

Hi Ed,
When I first saw your pics I felt sure I had seen that B&B brand before but I've hunted through my books, catalogues and tools and I'm blowed if I can find it. I've checked my braces for one the same as yours, no go, the big difference being your brace has cylindrical handle retainers where any I've got that look very similar have tapered retainers.
Looking at the H/196^1953 notice that the numbers fade from the top left to the bottom right as if the stamp was applied at a slight angle, perhaps at a later date?
In Western Australia the broad arrow was used by various Government departments and in that case the H/196 was probably the code for that particular department, I wonder if the same applies in the UK?
Sorry I'm not much use to you.
Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[ED65]

Thanks Geoff, I do appreciate you taking the time to have a look through your collection.

I wonder if the retainers being plain or tapered might be a feature that didn't stay fixed over time, it seems an easy thing to change if they wanted to give a brace a facelift. Are any of the other elements something that might be indicative or are they generic enough that they're not really of much use in narrowing down a maker?

 

[Boringgeoff]

Hi Ed,
If I had to lay odds my money would be on your brace being made by Stanley UK but it would only be a guess. The burning question remains, who was B&B? Perhaps a hardware retailer?
Here's a 10' brace by James Chapman that's got the Government arrow, but the coincidence of the number -196 which is also on your brace is a bit spooky.
The chuck is clearly marked: Manufactured by J A Chapman. Sheffield England. On the frame between ratchet and handle is 9 - 196 ^ and on the same side of the brace, between head and handle is: British JAC Made (566). 1945 is on the other side of the rear part of the frame.
Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[Boringgeoff]

Hi Ed,
Bought this brace yesterday, it's branded "P&B Made in England". Parry and Bott, Birmingham. I don't know anything about them apart from what's available on google.
Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[Hot stuff]

The numbers prior to the arrow may be a "rate book " reference.
When I was an apprentice with the GPO some years ago, every item available from the store was listed in the book with a reference number, description and price.
9-196 Brace, hand, holes, drilling for the use of. 7/6d

Perhaps.

 

[ED65]

What are the chances Geoff?! It is indeed a small world sometimes. Nice to get a firm ID. I thought the first letter could be a P and not a B with losses from rust pitting but I'd convinced myself I could see the remnants of the bottom counter on the B, the way you do when you're trying to fill in blanks.

Both ours appear to have been the Bright Steel option mentioned in the add on Grace's Guide and not originally plated. Yours looks like it stayed in much better condition, what style of chuck shell does it have, the smoother 50s type?

 

[Boringgeoff]

We had an antique and craft fair on in Perth this weekend and I found that brace yesterday. The chap I bought it from usually does a thorough job of cleaning the tools and coats them in some sort of varnish, though I prefer to do the cleaning myself.
My chuck may be a later model than yours and the hub of the head is different too. I haven't photographed the jaws but they are alligator with teeth the full length, rather than the more modern Mitchell style.
Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[kwigly]

They're everywhere ! Even in Ontario.
Found one today while going through an auction lot that I got at last Saturday's estate auction.
It looks similar style to Geoff's, except its a non-ratcheting version (spring alligator jaws in chuck)

 

[Boringgeoff]

That's quite an unusual method of attaching the chuck to the frame.

 

[kwigly]

That's quite an unusual method of attaching the chuck to the frame.

I'd say its the economy version. Looks like a quick and cheap attachment method; just slide the crank arm into the hole in the chuck shaft, and pin it in place

 

[ED65]

Thanks for that kwigly, they're coming out of the woodwork now!

 

[macca]

you did a beautiful job cleaning it up! What did you soak the rust in?

Sam

 

[ED65]

Thanks macca. Most of the rust was taken off with a wire wheel chucked in a power drill (looong job in this case) followed by a little sanding and then maybe a once-over with coarse steel wool.

I may have soaked the shell and jaws since those can be separated, in which case I would have used a vinegar + salt mixture.

 

[ED65]