Axminsters Spindle Moulder Training Day Any Opinions?

[pollys13]

Has anyone been on the Axminster day course, if so what did they think? They have one coming up in February. On the 21st Dec I went to Peter Seftons spindle training day, which was excellent, money well spent. Peter went into quite a degree of detail regarding the use of false fences, false table, breaking through safely.Shaw guard and pressure pad use, finger fences, feather boards. The use of the power feed and a practical for all of us to try some curved work with template, using the ring fence and the bearing guide and the difference between the two.

 

[meccarroll]

Has anyone been on the Axminster day course, if so what did they think? They have one coming up in February. On the 21st Dec I went to Peter Seftons spindle training day, which was excellent, money well spent. Peter went into quite a degree of detail regarding the use of false fences, false table, breaking through safely.Shaw guard and pressure pad use, finger fences, feather boards. The use of the power feed and a practical for all of us to try some curved work with template, using the ring fence and the bearing guide and the difference between the two.

I use spindle moulders for professional use and personally think they are a very useful piece of woodwork equipment, but I would advise obtaining some training. If you don't have access to training (training by professionals at work) then a course on one of these machines is a must. For safety reasons alone a one day course would be very worth while. If you go through the same course content as say Peter Seftons then it will certainly be money really well spent.

Mark

 

[custard]

I'd guess that it will cover a lot of the same ground you've already been through. Surely the best thing to do now is consolidate your learning by practising with your own machine and your own tooling? Maybe draw up plans for a little cabinet incorporating loads of tenons, rebates, mouldings, copy template curves etc and set to with your spindle moulder.

 

[pollys13]

I'd guess that it will cover a lot of the same ground you've already been through.
Uum, yes I was thinking that too, Roger Berwick, cabinet maker he offers a one to one, bespoke day course on the moulder. There is another chap too.

That said I still haven't got the Redwood to build my bench, I wanted to be sure I got the right lengths for the tenons, which I will cut on the bandsaw. I really do have to crack on with the bench that so I can learn to use the hand planes I have and learn some basic bench skills.
Yes, I think I will start to practice some simple, straight forward procedures on the spindle.

 

[PAC1]

I'd guess that it will cover a lot of the same ground you've already been through.
Uum, yes I was thinking that too, Roger Berwick, cabinet maker he offers a one to one, bespoke day course on the moulder. There is another chap too.

That said I still haven't got the Redwood to build my bench, I wanted to be sure I got the right lengths for the tenons, which I will cut on the bandsaw. I really do have to crack on with the bench that so I can learn to use the hand planes I have and learn some basic bench skills..

That is a good idea. Concentrate on these. The spindle is a machine that needs a lot of skill to operate and make jigs. I would park the spindle and spend the year learning the hand skills. You will then find you have a far better appreciation of machines generally and the spindle in particular.

 

[RogerS]

I'd guess that it will cover a lot of the same ground you've already been through.
Uum, yes I was thinking that too, Roger Berwick, cabinet maker he offers a one to one, bespoke day course on the moulder. There is another chap too.

That said I still haven't got the Redwood to build my bench, I wanted to be sure I got the right lengths for the tenons, which I will cut on the bandsaw. I really do have to crack on with the bench that so I can learn to use the hand planes I have and learn some basic bench skills..

That is a good idea. Concentrate on these. The spindle is a machine that needs a lot of skill to operate and make jigs. I would park the spindle and spend the year learning the hand skills. You will then find you have a far better appreciation of machines generally and the spindle in particular.

I'm not sure that I'd agree with that. I don;t need to know how to hand cut a dovetail to appreciate just how quickly I can run a moulding through my spindle moulder TBH I rarely pick up a plane, for example.

But having said that, if I was starting out again and some spare cash I'd sign up for Peter Sefton's long course at the drop of a hat. The stuff that his students produce at the end of it makes me want to give up.

 

[ColeyS1]

I think you did the right thing by taking the course and having a roller feed makes any slips alot less likely. As daft as it sounds, as long as you made a simple checklist I don't think you could have that many issues using a spindle. For example.

Ensure cutter is mounted in block securely- tick

Ensure it spins freely without hitting any fences- tick

Ensure fence is tight- tick

Ensure height adjustment and tilt are tight- tick

Ensure roller feed is tight (all levers on roller feed)- tick

Ensure speed is on right setting- tick

Double check all the above- tick

I'm not sure that much could go wrong tbh. Buying roller feed really is money well spent. Worse case scenario is roller feed comes loose and hits the cutter. So longs you know where to kick the emergency stop, you'll be fine. Gone are the days where cutters will come flying out. Providing you've done all the checks, you'll be fine. I'm glad nobody notices but checking everything's tight on the spindle is my ocd thing. I'll quite happily be smashing out the same mould for hours, but still feel the need to tweak every lever every 10 or so minutes- not sure why [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]
The lever I usually forget is the one that adjust the wheels to the fence. Even with all the mental checks I've still had a roller wheel tickle the cutter. Don't be afraid of the machine. If you do ALL the checks, the worst that could happen is the spindle motor stalls cause you're trying to take out to much.
Enjoy
Coley



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[custard]

What Coley said.

And do it soon while the training course is still fresh in your mind.

 

[ColeyS1]

What Coley said.

And do it soon while the training course is still fresh in your mind.

Thanks Custard. It's one of the things I always remember the old boys saying- " Don't ever be afraid to use any of the machines" just do all the checks and start using it !

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Peter Sefton]

I do believe it's a good idea to learn hand tool woodworking first, not necessarily to get highly skilled in hand work but to get a feeling for the grain structure and how timber works.

Moving onto bandsaws, table saws and planers are all good practice before progressing onto the spindle.

Pete going on the Axminster course will help to reinforce the wide range of topics covered whilst you were with me, I would cautiously use your spindle a couple of times and do any extra training when you are about to start a project that has a lot of spindle work in it if you feel you need refreshing on that already covered.

Cheers Peter

 

[pollys13]

OK thanks everyone and a happy New Year to you all.

After Peter Seftons spindle day, as soon as I got home I wrote down lots of notes about what we covered.

 

[pollys13]

I think you did the right thing by taking the course and having a roller feed makes any slips alot less likely. As daft as it sounds, as long as you made a simple checklist I don't think you could have that many issues using a spindle. For example.

Ensure cutter is mounted in block securely- tick

Ensure it spins freely without hitting any fences- tick

Ensure fence is tight- tick

Ensure height adjustment and tilt are tight- tick

Ensure roller feed is tight (all levers on roller feed)- tick

Ensure speed is on right setting- tick

Double check all the above- tick

I'm not sure that much could go wrong tbh. Buying roller feed really is money well spent. Worse case scenario is roller feed comes loose and hits the cutter. So longs you know where to kick the emergency stop, you'll be fine. Gone are the days where cutters will come flying out. Providing you've done all the checks, you'll be fine. I'm glad nobody notices but checking everything's tight on the spindle is my ocd thing. I'll quite happily be smashing out the same mould for hours, but still feel the need to tweak every lever every 10 or so minutes- not sure why [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]
The lever I usually forget is the one that adjust the wheels to the fence. Even with all the mental checks I've still had a roller wheel tickle the cutter. Don't be afraid of the machine. If you do ALL the checks, the worst that could happen is the spindle motor stalls cause you're trying to take out to much.
Enjoy
Coley



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Thanks for that, I'll print out you check list and stick on the power feed or on the side of the machine as well as Roy Suttons check list. I like to think I'm a sensible person who wouldn't become complacent or careless in any machines use and give them the respect they deserve. I'm really looking forward to start using the spindle with the power feed.
Coley, your post on window making, you tilt the spindle to get the 9 degree cill cut using your rebating block. I think you rebate block has much longer knives than mine. An Axcaliber 100 x 30 x 30 with 4 scoring knives. I've looked at the dimension on your cutting list. I don't think the 30mm knives on my block are long enough to cut the 9 degree cill? So I'm thinking I should be looking for a block that can take 50-55mm knives. Is there a certain style of rebate block, shear cutting, 2/4 nickers that would provide the best cut and finish for the cills? Or should I be looking at some type of combi block?
No more PMs..... promise

 

[ColeyS1]

In your situation I think I'd be tempted to get an 80mm high one. That'll be more useful than getting a 60mm one that is only just big enough.
If you're ever considering making double glazed windows, you'll generally put a 13x 58mm rebate in the frame. By the time you've tilted it over 9 degrees 60mm probably wouldn't quite be enough. Your choice of course.

I don't think you'll notice much difference with rebate blocks tbh. Providing the cutters are sharp and it has scribers I'm sure any will be fine.

If you did consider the 80mm height block, it might be worth checking your spindle first, to see how low you can wind the shaft. You might find with the higher block, that quite alot of it sticks up even though it's wound as low as it can go. Just something to bear in mind
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[pollys13]

In your situation I think I'd be tempted to get an 80mm high one. That'll be more useful than getting a 60mm one that is only just big enough.
If you're ever considering making double glazed windows, you'll generally put a 13x 58mm rebate in the frame. By the time you've tilted it over 9 degrees 60mm probably wouldn't quite be enough. Your choice of course.

I don't think you'll notice much difference with rebate blocks tbh. Providing the cutters are sharp and it has scribers I'm sure any will be fine.

If you did consider the 80mm height block, it might be worth checking your spindle first, to see how low you can wind the shaft. You might find with the higher block, that quite alot of it sticks up even though it's wound as low as it can go. Just something to bear in mind
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

The manual says the spindle travel is 100mm.
Whitehill do a 125 x 100 x 30b 4wg Ally Rebate Head £283 inc vat but not post. I've just had a look at the machine original owner seems to have put the spindle locking handle on a different way to how the manual says. Will sort out another time as have to go out soon.
" You might find with the higher block, that quite a lot of it sticks up even though it's wound as low as it can go. Just something to bear in mind. " Not quite sure..... I fully understand you on this? If were a problem, would a way around it be have a recess machined into head, like the recessed nut on a rebating head to allow longer tenon to pass over? A dedicated cill block, I assume can.... only be used..... as a cill block whereas an 80mm rebate block would be a load more useful. Cheapest Trend cill block, new on Ebay is £337.59
Uum

 

[ColeyS1]

This is the 80mm block in my spindle. With it wound down as low as possible I've still got around 18mm sticking up. If you've got another smaller rebate block I guess it won't be an issue. Just switch between each one.

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[PAC1]

TBH I think that unless you are making windows all the time a Cill block is a luxury that can be avoided. The alternative options are:
1. tilt the spindle (not my favourite option as that is a lot of block exposed)
2. Cut on the Table saw with the blade tilted and then plane up
3. set the fence on the planer and plane up (slow)
4. Make a jig for the thicknesser.
5. Make Jig for Router table
6. Rough out and finish by hand.

 

[RogerS]

And don't forget that a cill block needs a pretty hefty motor to spin-up to speed.

 

[pollys13]

And don't forget that a cill block needs a pretty hefty motor to spin-up to speed.

OK.

 

[pollys13]

As PAC1 says, " Cut on the Table saw with the blade tilted and then plane up "
I think this would involve removing the Crown guard? I know.... might only involve removing guard once or twice but then accidents only need to happen once or twice, for a serious injury to happen. So I wouldn't remove the guard.

The planer, I think I might have a go at that, not that slow, what 1mm, 2mm each pass, lighter on the final cut, clean up planer ripple with a hand plane?

 

[pollys13]

This is the 80mm block in my spindle. With it wound down as low as possible I've still got around 18mm sticking up. If you've got another smaller rebate block I guess it won't be an issue. Just switch between each one.

Coley

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" Just switch between each one. " I don't follow???
The rebating cill size your using, I'm looking at 24mm glazing units, would 24mm change anything?
Update, on fitting the power feed mount to the table. I asked on a metal working forum. As I'm not a metal worker and to avoid finding that out , the hard way, by trying to drill, tap holes myself. Those in the know, suggested having a metal plate made up, drilled and countersunk for flat head screws to bolt to the existing holes in the table and with drilled and tapped holes for the new mount in it. I know a machinist who does little jobs for me so I'll contact him.

Rebating block, just checked the 30mm head thats in the machine, wound down the top of the head is 70mm below the bottom face of the table.......?
I bought an Axcaliber spindle cutting disc for the Aquamac 63 window seal best price I could find was £56 all in. Also best price, so far can find for an Axcaliber Aquamac 21 door seal router cutter is £40.34.
Cheers Coley