Axminster AC 216 or AC 254 Table Saw?

[Welsh Brian]

Setting up a workshop in a single garage and trying to decided which table saw to get. Will be using a track saw for sheet work but have always had a Table Saw and really like using them. The Axminster models seem to fit my budget and space available plus with induction motors are much quieter than others. Bid decision is do I need the AC254 with its 10" blade or would the smaller 216 be big enough ? TS 254 has 80mm at 90deg and 56mm at 45deg where as the TS 216 has 65mm and 45mm. 45mm@45deg is not enough for 2" timber & 65mm will not cut 3" timber. However the AC216 is quite a bit quieter not to mention cheaper!

How often do people need/use the extra capabilities of a 10" blade?

 

[RichardG]

Don’t forget you can always flip the wood over and make a cut from both sides although you may need to make a mod to the riving knife to do this. It all comes down to what you plan to make. I rarely use the angled cut but when I have it has been useful.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

There wasn't a choice when I bought the 216, but if money is no option, and you have enough room, always buy the bigger tool. You don't have to use all the capacity, but it's there should you need it.

I am still delighted with what I can do with mine. Perhaps the smaller motor means I haven't thrown any really big bits of wood at my head.

 

[Hornbeam]

I would recommend a 10 inch saw as a minimum. You can always cut small things on a bigger machine.
To me both machines look fairly expensive for what they are. I think you could get a much better quality m/c secondhand for less than half the price

 

[Welsh Brian]

Thanks for the replies. Can you suggest a saw that is similar size and dB level that I should look for 2nd hand?

Agree that bigger is better, the balance is noise and when I can use it against sometimes(?) not being able to cut larger wood.

 

[Hornbeam]

While a bigger saw blade is slightly noiser than a smaller blade, the bigger difference is the tooth type , a rip blade with fewer teeth is much noisier than a fine cross cut blade . Ripping 2 inch oak will be much noisier than fine cross cutting 12mm ply.
Biggest consideration is how much space you have and what you want it to do.
Cant really comment different makes. What I would look at is dust extraction. Saws create masses of dust so you need to have a good extractor and a good set up on the saw
The other question is if you are using a track saw for straight/panel cuts would you be bettter with a bandsaw (loads of threads on here)

 

[bp122]

What Hornbeam said.

If you already have a track saw, look for a band saw as it is a lot more versatile tool.

I have the 216, it has its niggles but it also has its moments. Recently Axminster outlet store on eBay auctioned off a 10" table saw for about £100 less than their list price, as it was customer returned one but still almost brand new.

If I were to do it all again, I'd buy a big used startrite bandsaw for that money as it will be even less noisy than a induction table saw, more manageable dust collection and much more versatile whilst having a smaller footprint!

Back to your question, I think the 10 inch model has a better throat plate than my 216 and potentially better blade selection from third party suppliers. 216mm blades leave you with fewer choices.

Also, I'm building (still) a biesmeyer style fence for mine as the fence that came with it is very frustrating! You don't want to pull your hair out after spending better part of a grand on a table saw and the fence is still subpar.

Also, for a little bit more money than the 10" model you can buy the trade version of the saw which looks like a proper cabinet saw with a much much better fence. And even they can be had for a bargain on eBay.

If you buy the ac254 (£800), you still need to either buy the bottom cabinet (£50-70, maybe)or make one, still need to buy the wheel kit (another £100) etc. If you look for the AT254 on eBay, generally you can find one with the wheel kit for£700-£1000 which is s much better investment.

My sincere advice is to not hyperventilate on this and click on the first thing, take your time, think about it and sleep on it (wish someone told me that!!)

 

[Welsh Brian]

Thanks both. Having owned a big Schappach quality table saw I understand the advantages of solid kit. I previously had a biggish band saw and only retained my small Inca model. (Nice but small!) I have been pontificating about the tools I need for 3 months now and somewhat frustrated by not being able to actually see the Axminister offerings or travel to look at second hand kit. BP122, you mentioned short comings with the AC 216s fence - could you expand? The clamping system looks similar to the one on the Scheppach which was good? A big band saw has to be an option as many on this site have stated..........

 

[bp122]

Thanks both. Having owned a big Schappach quality table saw I understand the advantages of solid kit. I previously had a biggish band saw and only retained my small Inca model. (Nice but small!) I have been pontificating about the tools I need for 3 months now and somewhat frustrated by not being able to actually see the Axminister offerings or travel to look at second hand kit. BP122, you mentioned short comings with the AC 216s fence - could you expand? The clamping system looks similar to the one on the Scheppach which was good? A big band saw has to be an option as many on this site have stated..........

The fence rail is okay, but it mounts to the underside of the cast iron top AND the sheet metal extension. The metal extension you get may not be welded well (couple of spot welds are gone on mine), as a result, wont mount truly to the side of the cast top, this pushes the fence rail out of kilter (if you are seeing it from the front of the saw and the cast top is flat, the fence rail may go uphill from left to right.
This a small issue.

The fence attaches to the fence carriage (the bit which locks to the rail) through an aluminium bracket via four countersunk bolts (which I think now they have changed on the 10" version looking at their new operators manual) which is almost impossible to adjust the squareness to the blade as every time you do it and then tighten the bolts, it pulls out of square.
You can adjust the way the aluminium bracket attaches to the fence, but it is held by four socket head screws from underneath, so you can't tighten it in situ. Lots of checking and tightening.

Although the fence itself is a great piece of extruded aluminium, the rest of the fence assembly (the carriage and the rail) are quite flimsy.

And My blade arbour wobbles by 0.35-0.4mm sway from left to right. I know this isn't the blade as I have checked with three new blades. Axminster said this is within tolerance and won't do anything unless it is more than 0.5mm. Fair enough this isn't a precision machine, but still annoying.

 

[Welsh Brian]

BP 122. I assume that your TS is the newer Craft range and not the older Hobby. I had thought that with the way it had been designed it would not have faults I would have associated this less well regarded makes! Your blade wobble is actually more of a concern - can I ask if it prevents a super smooth and flat cut? I would expect table saws at this price to cut and leave on almost planed finish with a good and sharp blade.

I have looked through ebay ads and as you say there are some real quality machines around the price that Axminster charge. However, they are all super heavy and 100 + miles away and would need a van to transport. Additionally, They tend to be large than I can comfortably fit in the garage. I was planning to make a cabinet on wheels that would attach to a movable work bench.....

 

[bp122]

Yes, mine is ac216, bought in August 2019.

The cut quality isn't an issue for me. Even wobbling by 0.35mm, but spinning at the speeds it spins at, each tooth makes plenty of passes on the wood surface, so your cut quality is really good. But the issue is the accuracy of cut. If I set my fence to exactly 100mm with the fence scale or a tape measure, I could end up with something more or less depending on which tooth on the blade I'm measuring.

This means every time I have to compensate for this.

If either the fence was accurate or the blade didn't wobble, I only have to correct one variable, when both issues are present, it is really difficult to get consistent results.
That's why I am planning to eliminate one of the two variables by building a home made accurate fence.

I have cut most hardwoods on it (walnut, Oak, cherry, ash, sapele, poplar, maple)
As long as the pressure on the fence before the blade is sufficient and constant, the cut quality had been great. I use Freud combo blade.

 

[tradesman]

The fence rail is okay, but it mounts to the underside of the cast iron top AND the sheet metal extension. The metal extension you get may not be welded well (couple of spot welds are gone on mine), as a result, wont mount truly to the side of the cast top, this pushes the fence rail out of kilter (if you are seeing it from the front of the saw and the cast top is flat, the fence rail may go uphill from left to right.
This a small issue.

The fence attaches to the fence carriage (the bit which locks to the rail) through an aluminium bracket via four countersunk bolts (which I think now they have changed on the 10" version looking at their new operators manual) which is almost impossible to adjust the squareness to the blade as every time you do it and then tighten the bolts, it pulls out of square.
You can adjust the way the aluminium bracket attaches to the fence, but it is held by four socket head screws from underneath, so you can't tighten it in situ. Lots of checking and tightening.

Although the fence itself is a great piece of extruded aluminium, the rest of the fence assembly (the carriage and the rail) are quite flimsy.

And My blade arbour wobbles by 0.35-0.4mm sway from left to right. I know this isn't the blade as I have checked with three new blades. Axminster said this is within tolerance and won't do anything unless it is more than 0.5mm. Fair enough this isn't a precision machine, but still annoying.

Im having exactly that problem - any fixes a newbie can look at - i thought it was the actual top but its not-every time i tighten the allen key bolts up it throws the back edge off by a fraction - annoying and generates alot of swearing!!

 

[bp122]

Try this.

I removed the countersink bolts and used a metal strip as a washer and used buttonhead (panhead or whatever non countersink) bolts.

This has solved the issue for me temporarily and is quite cheap to do and easy as well. You can do the same with washers but the issue is the outer dia of the washer will be very close to the fence, so you may have to cut out some of it. But metal strip works best as it acts as a washer for two screws at the same time (very easy to adjust)

 

[bp122]

Funnily enough, Axminster also started doing this on their latest AC254 table saw. I saw this on their new owner's manual.

 

[tradesman]

So ( excuse me I can be a bit basic ) replace current bolts with those and make the metal strap to tie the two together to reduce movement.
and bolt to the underside of the bracket ( I havent looked yet ill be going up after my cuppa to have ago at this )

 

[bp122]

So ( excuse me I can be a bit basic ) replace current bolts with those and make the metal strap to tie the two together to reduce movement.
and bolt to the underside of the bracket ( I havent looked yet ill be going up after my cuppa to have ago at this )

No worries.

1. Remove the countersink bolts
2. Measure and make two metal strip washers with the right pitch holes, one for each pair of screws on the left and right sides of the fence.
3. Place the strip washers on top of the existing surface (see the picture from my previous post) and screw the new bolts in.

Points to remember:
1. You may have to tinker with the length of the new bolts as you have to avoid bottoming out into the t slot on the fence carriage underneath
2. Don't pick screws with large head as this may interfere with pushing the stock. It needs to be sub flush in relation to the cast top surface
3. You may need to open up the countersink holes so that you have some play for adjustment. Don't do this first as it may not be necessary. You can always do this later if required.

 

[tradesman]

Cheers ! Printed off and I'm off to the man cave to resolve my alignment issues - cant resolve my love of west ham but thats another story

 

[bp122]

Cheers ! Printed off and I'm off to the man cave to resolve my alignment issues - cant resolve my love of west ham but thats another story

Ha ha. All the best. If you want I can draw you an exploded view of the setup. Give me a shout if you get stuck.

And regarding west ham, I'm afraid football references are totally lost on me. I'm a cricket person

 

[bp122]

In fact here you go:
Excuse the bad sketches

 

[tradesman]

I love all this round and egg shaped so a fun filled day for me to day - not sure ill be watching much of the goings on in chenai - more interesting sorting out my random screw box - not until monday anyway!!!

here I go cheers for the help -hopefully report back with success in a couple of hours