Auxillary vice jaws - spring or not to spring?

[rafezetter]

As per the title - I'm getting ready to fit a generously donated (by Eriktheviking) Record 52 1/2 vice - but I'm wondering about the auxillary faces.

A quick search got me loads of hits but nothing specific to my question so here it is: Do I add a bit of spring to the outer edges of the front auxillary face or not?

I did for my moxon, and I'm inclinded to do the same unless there's a very good reason not to?

I do intend to make the face of the rear aux fence flush to the front rail of the bench.

Oh also - is there a recommended width? - or what is "too big". My moxon is wide (no idea how wide) but it's shallow before you hit the sliding bars, so extra depth there is helpful.

 

[MusicMan]

I don't find a 'spring' particularly necessary, but I don't think it would hurt. Regarding width, I have a very wide face, and it suits the sort of work I do (restoration & musical instruments, but not much furniture). It may not suit yours. I also changed after 40 years to a thick offset back face, which I now infinitely prefer.

Since this pic was taken I added a leather sheet to the front face. making it about 2" deeper than the face. This means it can go under and protect clean wood from the oil on the guides. This has improved the grip immensely. I used the 'back' side to glue, with ordinary PVA, closed the vice to clamp it a few hours then trimmed off surplus at top and aides.

But as said it depends on your work. You can always change it later, as I did myself.

Keith

 

[Steve Maskery]

I also changed after 40 years to a thick offset back face, which I now infinitely prefer.

Isn't that interesting? My vice jaws are like yours, Keith, and I'm contemplating building a new bench and having the rear jaw flush!

Can you explain why you prefer the standout jaw, please?

S

 

[MusicMan]

Sure, Steve. And I must say that your example, seeing how you use it on your videos, was one cause! But the main argument was, I think, from Paul Sellers, who pointed out that when putting things in the vice you could hold it all round, or front and back, without clamping your fingers as you tighten the jaw, This made sense to me and indeed is working well in practice. Good for old arthritic fingers! The second reason is that it is easy to hold things with lumps on, for example a chair leg with a thicker end. The wide jaw (about 2x the width of the vice itself) makes it easier to hold frames or part assemblies. Obviously the load has to be restricted with a wide face, but the thickness of the jaws does compensate.

I do very little of the kind of work that would benefit from clamping a long board flush to the face, e.g planing or jointing long boards. I tend to make smaller stuff, musical instruments or restorations, that latter can often have things which benefit from this configuration of vice. But if building a second bench, and you do the long-board kind of work, I think it would make sense to make it flush, then you have the choice of the most appropriate one to use.

cheers, Keith

 

[rafezetter]

Sure, Steve. And I must say that your example, seeing how you use it on your videos, was one cause! But the main argument was, I think, from Paul Sellers, who pointed out that when putting things in the vice you could hold it all round, or front and back, without clamping your fingers as you tighten the jaw, This made sense to me and indeed is working well in practice. Good for old arthritic fingers! The second reason is that it is easy to hold things with lumps on, for example a chair leg with a thicker end. The wide jaw (about 2x the width of the vice itself) makes it easier to hold frames or part assemblies. Obviously the load has to be restricted with a wide face, but the thickness of the jaws does compensate.

I do very little of the kind of work that would benefit from clamping a long board flush to the face, e.g planing or jointing long boards. I tend to make smaller stuff, musical instruments or restorations, that latter can often have things which benefit from this configuration of vice. But if building a second bench, and you do the long-board kind of work, I think it would make sense to make it flush, then you have the choice of the most appropriate one to use.

cheers, Keith

Interesting and food for thought - but my counterpoint would be that seeing as how a 52 opens up so far, could you not build it in flush, then add another auxillary (auxillary ) face to make it proud of the rail if "it had lumps on"?

 

[MusicMan]

Yes you could, and indeed I double-sided-taped a temporary face to the bench to try it out before making it permanent. i did want to incorporate an angular offset to the vice to compensate for a 1 degree skew in the Paramo rails. Probably a manufacturing error that I didn't pick up at the time.

Long term plan is to make a Moxon that will fix in the next bay of the bench, and will have two positions: (1) on the top of the bench, as most are, and (2) on the front of the bench, top flush with bench top, and back face the same thickness as my back face.

Quite elaborate, I know, but I like doing such stuff!

 

[AndyT]

Oh also - is there a recommended width? - or what is "too big". My moxon is wide (no idea how wide) but it's shallow before you hit the sliding bars, so extra depth there is helpful.

Mine has an auxiliary wooden jaw about twice the width of the vice.

I find this essential for gripping normal size pieces stood up straight beside the vice, when ripping or cutting joints on the ends. If this is to the right, an extra clamp can be used on the bench leg.

(To prevent the vice from excess racking, make up a a pack of various slips of thin wood, drilled through at one corner and loosely bolted. This lets you make a packer equal to the thickness of the workpiece.)

Oh yes, the 'spring' is by design, so just plane your wooden jaws square. That way the top edge will close first.

 

[lurker]

Wearing (in "making woodwork aids and devices") uses rebated vice jaws.
This allows easy fitting of a range of auxiliary jaws which i imagine are very useful.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Woodwor ... 1861081294

"Look inside" feature, then first pages

 

[rafezetter]

Wearing (in "making woodwork aids and devices") uses rebated vice jaws.
This allows easy fitting of a range of auxiliary jaws which i imagine are very useful.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Woodwor ... 1861081294

"Look inside" feature, then first pages

Well blow me... look at all those great ideas - none of which would have occurred to me.

And I've decided how I can have the best of both systems - my front rail is going to get it's own removable auxiliary face with a step to match the vice, I'm also going to make it taller so it also becomes a lip for the top, so ensure continuity and no chance of my replaceable tops having an overhang.

bah - more work !

This bench will never be "finished" if I keep revising bits of it - half of it has been revised several times already !

Oh and I'll buy the book too - unless anyone has a copy no longer needed to sell?

 

[Steve Maskery]

It was exactly because of that that I made mine that way. The first mortising jig that I published was was a Rolls-Royce version of his. I have an even betterer one now that does not rely on that kind of jaw, which is why I am considering going back to a more trad installation.

 

[lurker]

It's not a bad book, but I would not want to pay any where near that price.