Attaching tulip frames to cabinets

[Giles watts]

Hi
I'm doing a kitchen in a couple of weeks. Cabinets are standard off the shelf oak effect from howdens. I will be making frames and shaker style doors from tulip. What is the best way to attach the frames to the cabinets, ideally without seeing any fixings from the front??
Thanks
Giles

 

[Myfordman]

Biscuits, dowels or Dominos according to taste.

 

[scholar]

I adopted a method that I picked up from an independent kitchen maker who made a couple of kitchens for us.

This involves a continuous spline of ¼”/6mm birch ply glued into the back of the face frame and the front edge of the chipboard carcase. The nice thing about this method, as well as having no fixings showing, is that you can adjust the position of the face frame relative to the carcase easily. I make the housing slots using an adjustable groove router cutter (I think it is 5-11mm from Trend) - this makes it easy to adjust the groove width to the actual thickness of the ply, which varies from batch to batch, of course).

Birch ply is a problem now, so you need something else - actually, I think some decent MDF would be fine.

Cheers

 

[recipio]

Are the face frames to be painted ? If not it would look better if they were in oak to match the cabinets. Biscuits are quick and easy and have a little lateral movement before the glue sets. I see Blum make hinges to be hidden behind face frames but can't say I've used them.

 

[johnnyb]

that's an interesting one. I do like the birch spline as it would straighten up things that have moved a bit. I use pocket screws just because things I make are never"precise" and I want to tweak( ply cabinets) im thinking I could use that. the biggest issue would be face frame cabinets can be an odd size for integrated stuff and belfast sinks. drawers might be interesting

 

[HOJ]

As you are using "Tulip" glue, 23 gauge head less pins, fill and paint,

 

[Doug71]

I sometimes use these as shelf supports as I like that you can get a screw through them in to the shelf but they are really designed for attaching face frames although I have never used them for that.

https://www.hafele.co.uk/en/product...-for-5-mm-hole-for-wooden-shelves/P-00861955/
I tend to use a mix of dominos, glue, pocket screws or pins, depends on the situation. If using dominos or biscuits you need to be very accurate, I find it easiest to domino/biscuit the ends (uprights) first, fit them on dry then cut the horizontals between.

Just out of curiosity are you keeping the inside or the outside edge of your frames flush with the carcasses and are you using butt hinges or Blum style?

 

[johnnyb]

I tend to vary a bit. somethings the outsides sometimes the inside just depending. I use 18mm cruciforms on thick inset clips as standard so that's flush with the outsides 18mm cab and 36mm face frame. but say belfast sink units are flush to the inside with zero cruciform. it's important to plan and do a dry run though. could be easier to get cabs tailor made in sizes specs to suit.

 

[johnnyb]

I'd like to try this one day. as it must be a time saver. maybe hidrofugo frames/doors.

 

[Giles watts]

I sometimes use these as shelf supports as I like that you can get a screw through them in to the shelf but they are really designed for attaching face frames although I have never used them for that.

https://www.hafele.co.uk/en/product...-for-5-mm-hole-for-wooden-shelves/P-00861955/
I tend to use a mix of dominos, glue, pocket screws or pins, depends on the situation. If using dominos or biscuits you need to be very accurate, I find it easiest to domino/biscuit the ends (uprights) first, fit them on dry then cut the horizontals between.

Just out of curiosity are you keeping the inside or the outside edge of your frames flush with the carcasses and are you using butt hinges or Blum style?

Inside edge flush with butt hinges

 

[Giles watts]

Are the face frames to be painted ? If not it would look better if they were in oak to match the cabinets. Biscuits are quick and easy and have a little lateral movement before the glue sets. I see Blum make hinges to be hidden behind face frames but can't say I've used them.

To be painted along with decor end panels, cornice etc

 

[Giles watts]

I adopted a method that I picked up from an independent kitchen maker who made a couple of kitchens for us.

This involves a continuous spline of ¼”/6mm birch ply glued into the back of the face frame and the front edge of the chipboard carcase. The nice thing about this method, as well as having no fixings showing, is that you can adjust the position of the face frame relative to the carcase easily. I make the housing slots using an adjustable groove router cutter (I think it is 5-11mm from Trend) - this makes it easy to adjust the groove width to the actual thickness of the ply, which varies from batch to batch, of course).

Birch ply is a problem now, so you need something else - actually, I think some decent MDF would be fine.

Cheers

Sounds like alot of work?

 

[Giles watts]

As you are using "Tulip" glue, 23 gauge head less pins, fill and paint,

I dint want to pin and fill it as I think k it looks a bit bodgey

 

[steve66]

Biscuited frames, this one was done as an example piece, another option is to attach with pocket hole screws from the cabinet to the frame

 

[Samkilby]

If you have access to a lamello zeta then the tenso fitting are perfect for this, and attaching kick plates and small scribe panels. And in my experience, not a great deal else.
Depending on how you intend to transport and install the cabinetry, and how long the runs are and access through doorways etc you might want to fix the face frames on in situ onsite, which would be really annoying with any of the other methods that involve achieving clamping pressure on the finished faces, or clamping pressure presumably over the top and below the cabinets. You would struggle to get anything in the middle with the backs attached.. and you would need a fair amount of decently long clamps onsite too.
I have gone to site with finished face frames and cabinets, already masked to avoid the glue squeeze out issue and already dry fitted in the workshop (using a combination of a few tenso and majority lamello bisco fittings, otherwise a bugger to remove) and then glued and tensoed the face frames onsite.
Of course if you can arrive with fully assembled runs and you don’t have use of a zeta then any of the other options are not an issue.
You can also run a biscuit jointer horizontally along some faces (for example the carcasse face) if you wish, which would mean you don’t need to offer up and mark the location for biscuits on the other face, as the can be anywhere you like. You might also find that a spline fits nicely in a biscuit jointer rebate, but would be trickier to run one against the face frame that way..

 

[johnnyb]

I use biscuited frames sometimes when I've got long tricky scribes on face frames and it's always effective.
so it involves a single biscuit groove on the carcase and two rows of biscuits scallops on the frame. the secret is a piece of wood the )same size as the difference between the biscuit scallops. so in use put the component in the outer groove then scribe the line using the wood block.
cut to the line(belt sanding can be easier) pop into the inner groove voila perfect scribe!

 

[HOJ]

looks a bit bodgey

You'd never know:



Used a mix of Dominos and pins

 

[Andy RV]

A minimum number of biscuits for alignment followed up with some pocket hole screws (from the interior of the cabinet of course).

 

[mark w]

Biscuits everytime.