Asking to much

[Spectric]

Hi

Romford, that brings back memories. I learnt to swim in the Mawney Rd baths, my mum was brought up in Willow street and her dad worked in the bus depot in north street. I can remember livestock at one end of the Romford market and Sainsbury's was near the old arcade, next to the market and it was not self service. Right next to the railway station was an ABC bakery/cafe and my nan worked in there. For you cyclist out there, there was a cycle shop in north street that supplied the Rory O Brian brand and handmade the frames for you.

 

[Just4Fun]

I think data mining eliminated the intelligent salesman because he:
* ...
* may have advised a customer that the low end was for them (avoided the upsell) ...

Some years ago I sometimes worked as sub-contractor to an outfit that supplied computers to companies. They were basically box-shifters and if a customer needed custom software I got called in. For one project they analysed details of the requirement, wrote a specification, then contacted me. I prepared a prototype/demo before even meeting the customer. Both customer and box-shifter were pleased with the demo but then I asked the customer for more details of why they wanted this software. I then realised they could achieve the same goal via a small, no-cost and temporary change to their work practises. I explained that and they happily went away without spending any money. The box-shifters were happy because their customer was happy. I was the one who lost out because I had no way of charging for the prototype and got no future work from it. If the same situation arose again, would I still put the customer's interest first? Not sure, but I can understand why many people don't.

 

[TheUnicorn]

Some years ago I sometimes worked as sub-contractor to an outfit that supplied computers to companies. They were basically box-shifters and if a customer needed custom software I got called in. For one project they analysed details of the requirement, wrote a specification, then contacted me. I prepared a prototype/demo before even meeting the customer. Both customer and box-shifter were pleased with the demo but then I asked the customer for more details of why they wanted this software. I then realised they could achieve the same goal via a small, no-cost and temporary change to their work practises. I explained that and they happily went away without spending any money. The box-shifters were happy because their customer was happy. I was the one who lost out because I had no way of charging for the prototype and got no future work from it. If the same situation arose again, would I still put the customer's interest first? Not sure, but I can understand why many people don't.

sorry to hear you lost out, if I was the customer in that situation you would have earned any future business I had to offer and recommendations to friends, a degree of delayed gratification but possibly worth more in the long run. if only possibly paid the bills.

 

[Concizat]

Hi, Spectric. I only moved here in 1962 so I'm a bit of a newcomer.
I'm afraid, like all towns, everything has changed. The old Mawney baths is now an office block and Sainsburys is now in the Brewery Shopping complex where the old Ind Coop brewery used to be. Rory O'Brien's shop has also long gone. I can't remember exactly where it used to be as they split North Street in half and put in a roundabout with and under pass when the road subsided many years ago.
Romford Market is a shadow of it's former self and English is now a minority language as you walk round it.
Not a pretty picture but I think it is echoed throughout the country.
I would go back to Scotland if this global warming would hurry up and improve the climate up there
As it is, I spend 7 months of the year in France, or I used to until Brexit changed everything.
Moan over


Romford, that brings back memories. I learnt to swim in the Mawney Rd baths, my mum was brought up in Willow street and her dad worked in the bus depot in north street. I can remember livestock at one end of the Romford market and Sainsbury's was near the old arcade, next to the market and it was not self service. Right next to the railway station was an ABC bakery/cafe and my nan worked in there. For you cyclist out there, there was a cycle shop in north street that supplied the Rory O Brian brand and handmade the frames for you.

 

[Spectric]

Sainsburys is now in the Brewery Shopping complex where the old Ind Coop brewery used to be.

That old brewery as I remember was huge, near Oldchurch hospital and there was a long pedestrian footpath ran right up one side of the brewery next to the railway.

 

[Chippymint]

I think we have to accept that we have lost many good craftsmen over the years, many of which moved to sales and technical support as they got older or just wanted to get out of front end work. Many of our woodworking shows had such people but more importantly the tech people where on hand to help. When you phoned the manufacturer, you had access to them - thankfully we still have a few left.

As customers we have driven down prices and suppliers have responded. The result is very clear to see; product quality has decreased and so has tech support.

Yandles show is just an example. Years ago there was a balance between professional and hobby products on show. We had experianced knowledgeable tech people on the stands to ask whatever. I went to the last show before Covid and the show is clearly balanced to the hobbyist and cheaper end of the market. There are still tech people but many of the experienced ones have gone. An example is Trend. It would seem that the people on the stand are mainly from one of their stockists stores. There used to be people from Trend themselves.

Our industry is not isolated. It seems every trade has or is on the same trajectory. Not good and very sad but it does seem that we, the customer, started the fire and now we don't like it's heat. How we get it back is anyone's guess. I hope these forums help as by raising our concern, manufacturers can read that we are not happy with their chosen path.

It's not all doom and gloom. Some machine and tool suppliers are having more specialists days or weekends. An example being Yandles who have Record machine/tools day, say to demonstrate: Band Saws and Axminster tools have specialist days. No doubt there are many more. If this is a way or a new way maybe we just have to consider how best to support it.

Happy New year and let's hope we defeat this Covid matter and get back to some good events.

 

[marcros]

When I started work, only 20 odd years ago we had loose parts in bins (and they were cheap). if somebody wanted an odd measurement, you could grab one and measure it. Within a couple of years we moved predominantly to prepackaged units. The price multiplied by many times, but you couldn't physically check a measurement. you were dependant on a technical manual if it existed or, if not, nothing. The accountants loved it because it was easy to stock take and the profit margin had increased. It must have worked because now there are very few places that will sell you a single unit for a few pence.

Now, offices are often remote from stores. sometimes separated by oceans. I am not in a technical role, but occasionally need some info. If I need this, from Leeds I would probably email our facility in Malaysia (this facility will use the items and may have some in stock) who would email the manufacturer (likely Europe or USA). It is probably quicker this way than getting somebody to withdraw one from stores, measure it and return it. I think that we are probably in a transition phase where all of the critical information for every product is being put online for all to access. All businesses want this, none of them want to pay for it to be done instantly!

My bigger frustration isnt so much the lack of technical support, although it would be at the forefront of my mind if I were running machines as part of my business. I am at the hobby end of the market and my frustration is that I cannot buy smaller machines at an acceptable level of quality. I am not desperate to chase every last £ from a machine at the expense of quality control, but there are very few premium small machines like bandsaws, planers, thicknesses etc. Handplanes, I can have a choice of 4 or 5 manufacturers at different price points, but a small bandsaw- choice only of colour schemes.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The others just give you bad service and rely on you not bothering to go anywhere else (SIG group are the worst for this) and act surprised when we tell them we've gone elsewhere.

They took over a thriving local company and ran it into the ground. A year or two later the original owner bought it back for peanuts and it's thriving again.

 

[clogs]

Most of the good guy's, read experienced just quit...all my mates were self employed engineers, joiners etc etc....
all paying thru the nose for the pleasure....
My workshop for instance, employed 5 skilled persons.....rent n rates, that always kept jumping up, phones, adverts, printing plus a host of other expences....so I reckon that it would take at least 4 days to pay the bills and the last was for my pay and profit....
the last rate rise was the game changer.....I JUST QUIT....sold all my Wadkin and engineering gear and worked out of a Transit van for a year or two, earnt more money....
As I was on the engineering/prototype side of things, getting stuff machined was getting harder because those small jobbing shops had to/forced start changing up to CNC to get ISO standard (I think thats the name) so everything was traceable.....
90% of they guys were as old as me and they just quit also......
Most sold up and went to Spain Portugal etc......there they could live off their savings.....
A few that didn't went to work for the big firms but all found it demoralising and soon took early retirement.....

A very close friend also does prototype work, they've kept the design shop in the UK but the engineering side is now fully intergrated in Poland....their turnover is in the many millions per year..... accoutants....
lastley,
my last proper employment involved devoping a prototype machine (value over £4,500,000)
when I needed extra staff the morons in charge would not let me take on experienced staff....
they said quote "we can get 2 unskilled of the dole for the same money" "just train em up the best u can".....
1/2 of them could hardley read n write.....nobody wants to get their hands dirty anymore....
thats why things have gone to pot I'm afraid.....that and easy profit.....
just my two pennies worth.....I'm 72 and glad I'm out of it.....