Ashley Isle's Chisels - So Dissapointed

[undergroundhunter]

My AI's were not perfectly square when I bought them but after a few sharpenings they are as square as I can get them freehand, but does that really matter I don't think it does. Over all they are a good quality product for a reasonable price and to me the steel is what I'm paying for not the edge grind.

Matt

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

AI offer lifetime regrinds o all their chisels, which seems a bit weird, I can't imagine sending a chisel away to be ground, but nevertheless had the OP sent them to AI I'm pretty sure they would have reground them square. No matter how much you pay for something there is always a chance that your product may be faulty (not that I see this as really being faulty). I recently bought a festool CMS table and the legs were excessively wobbly, the table is very expensive for what it is and I was well miffed. When I rang them they immediately sent me some replacement legs which fixed the problem. As with the cars discussed above, there can always be a problem with anything you buy, the mark of a good company is that they will deal with it quickly and graciously.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

He probably could. But its a new tool and he shouldn't have too. He has bought what people regard as a quality tool and in this day and age you'd think they could get that right from the factory if they're grinding them, themselves!!!!! Especially these days in the land of t'web you'll get threads like these started cuz a basic grind seems beyond you...

Personally if I were he I'd have contacted Iles of my disappointment and had them pick-up fix, and return the item than buy the LN's - but he aint me.

I don't agree. For one thing, I don't really regard 1 1/2 degrees as much out of square on a chisel end, and it's the sort of thing that will correct itself in a couple of honings anyway. I'm willing to bet that most people's smaller chisels are 'out of square' by that or more - but still work perfectly adequately!

There are things to buy a good chisel for; balance in the hand, quality of steel, fineness of lands on a bevel-edged chisel and so on. Some you can assess by looking at or holding a chisel in the shop, some you can't really judge until you've used a chisel for some time. Rejecting a chisel because of something any half-competent woodworker will adjust for themselves almost without thinking about it seems rather harsh on a manufacturer who has done all the hard bits a woodworker, even a very good one, can't do - forging to shape, heat treating, grinding in fine lands, minutely hollowing the flat side.

Just a note for those indignant at the slight out-of-squareness of this example; NEVER buy a vintage chisel. The chances of finding anything that is even remotely as near to a good working end as that shown in the OP's photo are very remote!

 

[Petey83]

I posted this out of disappointment in what i received - In no review of these that i have read (and i did a lot research) did i read anything about them needing anything more than the usual back polish and hone, if i had I would of been more prepared for what I got. If I could be bothered to unpack them all again and take more pictures I would show that on 2 of the chisels the ground bevel appears to be out of square also and the overall grind looks pretty ruff on some of them with black marks being visable. If i was buying these second hand from a boot sale then i would have accepted it and developed the skill to re-grind them (which i am doing anyway). These cost £133 which is not cheap so its fair to expect a certain level of finish surely.... as mentioned even the guys at classic hand tools said they did not look right and gave me several options on how to proceed... the reason I chose not to send them back to AI to be re-ground was mainly due to the lack of solid turn around time.

Everyone is entitled to their views on this of course but for me as someone who is starting to try and further develop my hand tool skills the issue I found with them put me off trusting them - as a comparison my other hobby is air rifle target shooting and now i am competent at that I am happy to buy less than perfect rifles and fettle them to suit but when i first started out I would have just been questioning if issues were down to me or the rifle....

 

[Corneel]

You bought chisels that are advertised as being "individually hand ground by our team of highly experienced grinders who work without the aid of jigs or fixtures". (Quote from the workshop heaven website).

Now you get your chisels and they certainly look like handwork, and you complain that they don't look like machine work? Sounds illogical.

 

[Petey83]

You bought chisels that are advertised as being "individually hand ground by our team of highly experienced grinders who work without the aid of jigs or fixtures". (Quote from the workshop heaven website).

Now you get your chisels and they certainly look like handwork, and you complain that they don't look like machine work? Sounds illogical.

Firstly can you please point out where i have complained that they don't look like machine work..... don't remember ever using those words... I have said they were not to the same standard as the Narex chisels I had and I appreciate these will be machine ground but looking at the set I had in front of me the term "expertly ground" did not seem ring true - and this was agreed by the retailer from the set of photos I sent them.

maybe I should use another analogy or two like others have done - I bought a bespoke kitchen that was "hand painted" from Makintosh kitchens, the finish is immaculate and did not need re painting.... I own several pairs of nice Crockett & Jones shoes which are all hand made in Northampton which are immaculately finished out the box - any polishing I did to them was personnel preference. The point I make is the hand finish I was looking at seemed rough rather than refined and that did not seem right to me - if you look at the lovely pictures on workshop heaven (the set in question is out of stock) they look nothing like what I had in front of me.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

It's disappointing when something is not quite the way one expected, especially if the item is special and you have been looking forward to receiving it.

It comes down to expectations. It would not bother me to correct a bevel that is slightly out of square. I don't expect that a new plane blade is honed and ready-to-go out-of-the-box. I expect to sharpen it before use. My brand new chisels and plane blades will receive a hollow grind before honing. A slightly skewed bevel is not important - as long as the construction of the chisel is as promised - sidewalls are even and the same angle, lands are as expected, and the handle is well made and square. Those are the important initial factors. After this it is important that the blade hones easily and holds an edge.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[ColeyS1]

Just had a quick look at my chisels.

All the ones to the left side of the rope, are out of square by atleast 1mm, so obviously need throwing :lol:

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Corneel]

You bought chisels that are advertised as being "individually hand ground by our team of highly experienced grinders who work without the aid of jigs or fixtures". (Quote from the workshop heaven website).

Now you get your chisels and they certainly look like handwork, and you complain that they don't look like machine work? Sounds illogical.

Firstly can you please point out where i have complained that they don't look like machine work..... don't remember ever using those words... I have said they were not to the same standard as the Narex chisels I had and I appreciate these will be machine ground but looking at the set I had in front of me the term "expertly ground" did not seem ring true - and this was agreed by the retailer from the set of photos I sent them.

Well, you sure did complain otherwise the thread didn't exist. And it was indeed my interpretation that you complained about them not looking machine made. In my opinion, handmade looks better with these little imperfections. Your chisels were really quite cheap for handmade items, and there is a lot of grinding work on them, which looks perfectly done from your picture. The front bevel a little out of whack is something to be expected, and doesn't harm the chisel at all. Maybe the youngest intern was allowed to hone his skills on the front bevel of your chisel? Quite unimportant as you are expected to hone them back a mm or so anyway.

 

[D_W]

You bought chisels that are advertised as being "individually hand ground by our team of highly experienced grinders who work without the aid of jigs or fixtures". (Quote from the workshop heaven website).

Now you get your chisels and they certainly look like handwork, and you complain that they don't look like machine work? Sounds illogical.

Firstly can you please point out where i have complained that they don't look like machine work..... don't remember ever using those words... I have said they were not to the same standard as the Narex chisels I had and I appreciate these will be machine ground but looking at the set I had in front of me the term "expertly ground" did not seem ring true - and this was agreed by the retailer from the set of photos I sent them.

maybe I should use another analogy or two like others have done - I bought a bespoke kitchen that was "hand painted" from Makintosh kitchens, the finish is immaculate and did not need re painting.... I own several pairs of nice Crockett & Jones shoes which are all hand made in Northampton which are immaculately finished out the box - any polishing I did to them was personnel preference. The point I make is the hand finish I was looking at seemed rough rather than refined and that did not seem right to me - if you look at the lovely pictures on workshop heaven (the set in question is out of stock) they look nothing like what I had in front of me.

How much do those shoes cost?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

They seem to average about £400 (say about $500) a pair.

https://www.crockettandjones.com/collec ... collection

Let's just say they make a good quality chisel for £25 look a real bargain!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Tool manufacturer's hearts must sink when they see threads like this on the forums, because often it's the thread title that does the damage. Then the first post indignantly says, "I'm only a newbie woodworker, but in my opinion these tools are rubbish and I want my money back". No amount of posts from others more experienced saying, "That's not really a problem, and besides, you haven't tried them properly" undoes the harm.

Just for the record, I've had several AI chisels for a couple of years, I couldn't wish for better as bench chisels for furniture work. Especially for the price.

 

[lurker]

I can't believe the flak Petey has had on this thread!
What's happened to the "nice forum" this week?

My personal opinion is he is an ***** for buying new chisels but then so are all the rest of you suckered in by the boutique suppliers.
But you buy something (anything) that's marketed as top drawer and you should reasonably expect it to arrive in a decent state. It speaks volumes about these "artisans" attitude if they can't be bothered to finish them square.

With the exception of my turning tools, I've never paid as much as a fiver for a chisel and I may have over a 100

 

[Corneel]

Maybe because Petey doesn't want to see the error of his ways :mrgreen:

The damage to Ashley Iles is quite real for no good reason (those chisels are fine). Petey only receives some hurt feelings.

 

[swagman]

It would seem that AI Chisels have another issue that buyers need to be aware of; http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/a ... _bench.htm

Note: While we believe that at this price point, there is no finer bench chisel made today, there is one minor recurrent issue with these chisels. The ferules on the handles will invariably become loose during dry times of the year. Because Buginga is not a compressible wood, and the ferules are not peined to hold them in place, they will fall off. Be prepared that when this happens, and it is when, not if, you will need to peen or glue the ferules to keep them on.

 

[D_W]

That's like saying that it's a huge issue that japanese dais shrink when they come to the united states, or that the rings on japanese chisels can become loose if they're sold to someone in a dry area.

They (the AI chisels) have wood handles - if the ferrule comes loose, you either glue it or dent it with a punch.

As someone who has made a few tools, and a few primitive chisels, I'm still stunned that they will make them for what is effectively about $20 each - their proceeds. They are dandy - the best I've seen for someone who is actually going to do work. Less than the price of a lot of more crude chisels.

Of all of the different chisels I've bought, and I have a bad habit of buying chisels I don't need, they are the set that I would recommend to someone getting into the hobby.

 

[ColeyS1]

It would seem that AI Chisels have another issue that buyers need to be aware of; http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/a ... _bench.htm

Note: While we believe that at this price point, there is no finer bench chisel made today, there is one minor recurrent issue with these chisels. The ferules on the handles will invariably become loose during dry times of the year. Because Buginga is not a compressible wood, and the ferules are not peined to hold them in place, they will fall off. Be prepared that when this happens, and it is when, not if, you will need to peen or glue the ferules to keep them on.

I haven't had any come lose yet ! Perhaps mine are from a dodgy batch that don't come lose in the summer.....and work just fine being slightly out of square :lol:

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[John15]

I bought a 1/4" and a 3/8" Ashley Isles chisel last year from Workshop Heaven for some dovetail work I was doing. I've just checked them and both are just a tad out of square (probably due to my sharpening!) but they both cut and handle beautifully and I thoroughly recommend them to anyone thinking of making a purchase.

John

 

[D_W]

It speaks volumes about these "artisans" attitude if they can't be bothered to finish them square.

I'd love to see someone try to make those chisels better than AI makes them for the $20 or so that they're probably getting.

Used tools are nice to get, but in relative terms, they were more expensive when they were new than the AI chisels are now - perhaps even without handles - the HSB catalog makes it look like a set of firmers would've been about a day's pay. And they weren't paying the factory workers benefits in those days.

I've got a couple of chisels that would cost $500 if I were to try to buy them (Kiyotada - shimamura), and they would've been $200+ each new, and I've got chisels that were a dollar (HF - and some old ones in good makes that I was lucky to find for a dollar). I don't have any that are better in terms of fitness of use per dollar of price than the AIs.

The shape that I get most of my used ones, I'd hate to subject someone who is afraid of grinding a bevel square to those. I think they're a short fiddle to prepare, but someone who hasn't prepared a chisel would think they're never to be used again (especially people who read the blog experts like Chris Schwarz, who literally tell people that LN chisels are economy chisels when you consider all things - blows my mind - they aren't even an optimal steel for chisels and the company tells its buyers that they don't recommend grinding!).

 

[D_W]

They seem to average about £400 (say about $500) a pair.

https://www.crockettandjones.com/collec ... collection

Let's just say they make a good quality chisel for £25 look a real bargain!

I tracked them down. They're about $600-$650 for someone who pays in dollars. They make allen edmonds look pretty cheap (well, some of the allen edmonds shoes can get north of that if they're horween).

I'd say that someone who buys $600 shoes and then is concerned about grinding a bevel square on a $25 chisel - though it could be used perfectly well as it is - is probably someone who should not be a woodworker. A perfect Lie Nielsen customer, maybe (I do have some LN goods, but they have gone to catering to the wood show customers - the ones who will spend a day at an event, and buy some tools and follow their advice to the T "buy these stones, don't dry grind, use your #8 as a smoother" and then never use the tools).