Are Grippers much safer than push sticks?

[MikeK]

The crownguard on the the SCM I use is on a side mounted post and can be raised/lowered to accommodate the height of the material to about 800mm if you wanted to.

https://www.scmgroup.com/en/scmwood...884/sliding-table-saws.896/class-si-550ep.587

I have a similar overhead guard that the dealer included at no cost. The SCM tech found it in the demo area of the warehouse and no one could remember why they had it, so they tossed the unopened box on the truck with the rest of the saw components. It is a great guard and the dust extraction worked well. I used if for a while, but it got in the way when crosscutting wide sheets.

 

[tony359]

And yes, unless cutting ply, MDF etc, the fence should definitely end after the start and before the centre of the blade.

Ahh, that is what I was missing. For now I have never cut anything but wood that I can buy at B&Q to be honest. Mostly plywoof, MDF or birch studs.
I guess the reason is that solid wood can bend after the cut so it's better not to have anything that can push the whole piece back to the saw?

Regarding safety, now that I have a better understanding of what not to do with a TS I am appalled by the number of people I see on videos that don't follow the slightest safety whatsoever...

I stumbled into this yesterday (skip to 1:20): and that made me cringe! No raven knife, no protective googles and looks like the boy needed a few more directions before he was let on the TS by his own!!

 

[TheTiddles]

There’s literally so many terrible safety practices demonstrated on YouTube and the like it is hard to know where to start, the usual justification being “I’ve always done it this way and never had an accident”. It’s worth noting that is precisely the attitude NASA had before Challenger blew up (and worse still Colombia).

Aidan

 

[transatlantic]

He's literally watching him make the dangerous mistakes and only correcting him after the cut has been made.

But hey ho - he needs content for his youtube channel, right?

 

[pcb1962]

I stumbled into this yesterday (skip to 1:20): and that made me cringe!

If you think Wandel is bad wait till you see his mate John Heisz.
This one is pretty scary, fingers far too close to spinning blades throughout.

 

[Trevanion]

If you think Wandel is bad wait till you see his mate John Heisz.

I think there's a video somewhere where Wandel uses his fingers to slow down a circular saw by applying pressure against the saw plate, fingers touching spinning blade

 

[TheTiddles]

I think there's a video somewhere where Wandel uses his fingers to slow down a circular saw by applying pressure against the saw plate, fingers touching spinning blade

He is a most interesting chap, kinda reminds me of Tesla a bit, some good ideas, some barking.

Aidan

 

[tony359]

He's literally watching him make the dangerous mistakes and only correcting him after the cut has been made.

That's what I thought exactly! And seriously are you allowing an untrained person to use a TS without raving knife, blade guard and googles??
The fun thing is that I watched some of his videos before - before I had a TS so I didn't really know much about how to use it - and I did not notice anything! I still like his videos, I just caught the safety issue today for the first time

 

[Sgian Dubh]

... seriously are you allowing an untrained person to use a TS without raving knife, blade guard and googles??

To be honest, if I was expected to use a saw with a, er, well ... a raving knife, I'd be very tempted to not attach it in the first place. I wouldn't want to be forever distracted and put off what I was trying to do by some crazed piece of metal raving at me all the time, ha, ha.

As to grippers, I've never found or needed a use for one on any kind of bench saw, rip saw, or sliding table saw. They are for people who use saws in the American style with their fondness for a long rip fence, which, set long, is device perfectly designed to encourage kick back. Slainte.

 

[MusicMan]

Just curious......

The only thing I would ever find a table saw useful for would be cutting larger rebates. This would be perfectly easy with a riving knife, but not with a crown guard if that attached to the riving knife. How do properly set up machines manage this sort of cut?

I have never had the need to do this, since I don't make architectural-scale things, and routers have been adequate for me. But as others have already said, if necessary I would use a Shaw guard or a crown guard mounted on a cantilever. Steve Maskery has good designs.

I am just setting up a small Inca Universal saw, which does indeed have a side-mounted cantilever guard, and I intend to use that for medium-scale rebates, tenons etc. It also has a moulding head, with Shaw-type guards included, so profiles can also be cut.

 

[tony359]

To be honest, if I was expected to use a saw with a, er, well ... a raving knife, I'd be very tempted to not attach it in the first place. I wouldn't want to be forever distracted and put off what I was trying to do by some crazed piece of metal raving at me all the time, ha, ha.

I knew I was misspelling that!

 

[maznaz]

I have a problem with some of the advice in this thread. In fact I think it's potentially dangerous to leave it up.

A large number of new woodworkers are buying lower-end table saws without sliding carriages etc. Those saws invariably have a fence that spans the entire table top. The single most important thing they can do with that fence is ensure it runs parallel to the blade. Encouraging those same starting woodworkers to make a shorter fence themselves that attaches to their main fence is madness. The chances of introducing error, either immediately or over prolonged use is far greater when you add in a home-made fence.

The most pertinent and useful post in this thread for that category of woodworkers (I am among them) is the post from powertools, which was succinct and clear.

 

[maznaz]

When using a table saw there are a lot of things to to take into account.
No 1 make sure the fence is in line with the blade.
No 2 always use the riving knife.
No 3 always lower the blade to the minimum height to complete the cut.
No 4 always make sure your blade is sharp and is the correct type for the cut you are about to make.
If you have done all of that then you have reduced the chance of having any problem to almost zero.
Having done the above a tennon saw style push stick is the way to go and your other hand can keep the wood against the fence well back from the blade.

Please, anybody reading this thread looking for advice with their tablesaw and fence, just follow these guidelines. Don't start modifying your fence to try and shorten it, or sticking another fence over the top that's shorter, or worrying about pivoting stock on a correctly aligned fence (you won't). Just follow the above and use appropriate push sticks for the cuts you're making.

 

[PAC1]

I was always told that the Rip fence should be aligned to the gullet of the cutting teeth.
That remains good advice. The problem with full length fences is that real wood moves when cut and can get jammed between a full length fence and the saw blade. This is very dangerous as the saw blade at the rear is turning upwards and could launch the timber at 80mph in your direction

 

[tony359]

The single most important thing they can do with that fence is ensure it doesn't run parallel to the blade. Encouraging those same starting woodworkers to make a shorter fence themselves that attaches to their main fence is madness. The chances of introducing error, either immediately or over prolonged use is far greater when you add in a home-made fence.

Thank you - just to clarify: did you mean "it does"?

I understand the issue when cutting "real wood". For now, I shouldn't really need that. If I need to cut any studs, I'll probably use the mitre sled I am about to build. If I need to rip some pine studs... not sure anymore now! Still, I would think that if the piece wants to bend a bit, the riving knife should take care of that?

 

[Oddbod70]

Wise advice from Powertools and Maznaz there.

Maybe two more?

5. Don't remove the blade guard, or if you do, PUT IT BACK.
6. Never crosscut using the (full length) rip fence as a length stop.

 

[maznaz]

Thank you - just to clarify: did you mean "it does"?

Apologies you're absolutely right and I'll change that now. Too much codeine!

I understand the issue when cutting "real wood". For now, I shouldn't really need that. If I need to cut any studs, I'll probably use the mitre sled I am about to build. If I need to rip some pine studs... not sure anymore now! Still, I would think that if the piece wants to bend a bit, the riving knife should take care of that?

In the vast majority of cases yes, but really gnarly wood could still catch in some way and try and kick back.

 

[tony359]

no worries - I feel your advice, and Powertools' and Oddbod70's is sound. Thanks for your contribution.

 

[PAC1]

Thank you - just to clarify: did you mean "it does"?

I understand the issue when cutting "real wood". For now, I shouldn't really need that. If I need to cut any studs, I'll probably use the mitre sled I am about to build. If I need to rip some pine studs... not sure anymore now! Still, I would think that if the piece wants to bend a bit, the riving knife should take care of that?

Tony you need a short fence for cutting real wood. The whole reason that a Rip fence for real wood stops at the gullet of the tooth is so that the wood can move freely once cut. If there is a full length fence it will bind and that is dangerous. If you are pushing the wood against the fence the fact that there is no fence beyond the cut does not cause a problem it will not pivot because it is pressed against the flat fence. You should not be putting sideways pressure to press the waste into the blade in any event and certainly not beyond the length of the fence. Any sideways pressure should stop before the saw blade.
The riving knife only keeps the kerf open ie when the wood bends into the kerf. It does not do anything when the wood wants to bend away from the saw blade and equally there must not be a fence there stopping it from bending away from the blade.

 

[Oddbod70]

Pac1 is correct. However I find it's very rare for a bit of wood to do that and that when is does it stalls the blade rather than anything else. (Using a 16A 250mm schep 2500). With well seasoned wood it's not something I worry about overly.

But if, for some odd reason, I was cutting a bit of semi seasoned reaction wood then yes, I would do as PAC1 recommends