Jester129
Established Member
This guy waffles on and repeats himself repeats himself (sorry, couldn't resist it), but what he says is really interesting:
Are EV's good value? Apparently not!
- Thread starter Jester129
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Look at an Ev as a Cordless tool, how many cordless tools have you replaced simply because of the battery. My old makita is a good working drill but the batteries from my newer models do not fit so rather than invest in new batteries for the old drill I can get a better deal on a new drill with batteries. So would you risk buying a used EV that might soon need new batteries, no so this will have a major impact on resale prices. The big issue apart from the expense of the batteries is the labour involved in fitting them, if this was a simple job then it would help the value.
The last I heard was the Jag iPace at >60k had a battery life of 5 years ….a replacement battery pack was over 30 K 
Rhossydd
Established Member
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Jaguar guarantee their batteries for the first of 100,000 miles or eight years. According to Jaguar the battery deterioration is less than 2% per year. I’ve not noticed any deterioration on mine.The last I heard was the Jag iPace at >60k had a battery life of 5 years ….a replacement battery pack was over 30 K
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
EV batteries are typically guaranteed for 8 years and a minimum of 70% capacity.
Tesla claim a typical loss of 12% after 200k miles. Reports by Which (consumer mag) estimate an average loss of 2.3% pa - although in more recent EVs the rate of loss has reduced.
I have no doubt there are examples of battery failure at a low mileage or age. The same is equally true of ICE where failure within a couple of years or 30k is rare but not unknown.
Using unusual EV battery failures as the basis for ICE over EV is a product of selecting data to support the conclusion wanted, not rationally analysing outcomes.
The real issue - EV batteries are still relatively immature technology and evolving - this means that spares are limited for vehicle components which sold only in low quantities, and manufacturers reluctant to remanufacture low volume and obsolete batteries.
Whether manufacturers adequately compensate those whose batteries fail if they cannot repair is unknown - probably varies just as with warranty claims on ICE.
Tesla claim a typical loss of 12% after 200k miles. Reports by Which (consumer mag) estimate an average loss of 2.3% pa - although in more recent EVs the rate of loss has reduced.
I have no doubt there are examples of battery failure at a low mileage or age. The same is equally true of ICE where failure within a couple of years or 30k is rare but not unknown.
Using unusual EV battery failures as the basis for ICE over EV is a product of selecting data to support the conclusion wanted, not rationally analysing outcomes.
The real issue - EV batteries are still relatively immature technology and evolving - this means that spares are limited for vehicle components which sold only in low quantities, and manufacturers reluctant to remanufacture low volume and obsolete batteries.
Whether manufacturers adequately compensate those whose batteries fail if they cannot repair is unknown - probably varies just as with warranty claims on ICE.
Lons
Established Member
In November 2017 I paid £40k after a heafty discount for a 6 week old demonstrator. It's a premium diesel suv, and I was offered £25k for it a few weeks ago as a straight sale and I probably could have sqeezed more if I'd wanted to sell, so that's around 38% depreciation, but........ the car is now 6 1/2 years old. If it was an EV I would be seriously worried with a guarantee on the battery of 8 years. I certainly wouldn't buy if it was.
Additionally I bought a 3 year old 65 plate Skoda Citigo in May 2019, it's still very low mileage and I got a call last month from the same dealer wanting to buy it back for what I paid as they can't get hold of them and there's a demand for small petrol cars. It's a crazy world at the minute.
Additionally I bought a 3 year old 65 plate Skoda Citigo in May 2019, it's still very low mileage and I got a call last month from the same dealer wanting to buy it back for what I paid as they can't get hold of them and there's a demand for small petrol cars. It's a crazy world at the minute.
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John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
https://www.theguardian.com/society...nd-is-in-unsafe-air-pollution-area-study-says
I suppose it depends on whether you rank the resale value of your vehicle above the health of schoolchildren.
I accept that there are a lot of older people with no grandchildren or children to worry about, however, but forgive those generations if they reciprocate by not giving a 5h1t about you.
I suppose it depends on whether you rank the resale value of your vehicle above the health of schoolchildren.
I accept that there are a lot of older people with no grandchildren or children to worry about, however, but forgive those generations if they reciprocate by not giving a 5h1t about you.
artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
Not that I know anything, but what I've read suggests that the pollution just happens at a different place and time.
That is true, most energy is generated by fossile fuel still, but one could also argue the pollution is being removed from the street at least.
Tbh in my opinion EVs are another one of two things; Conspicuous Consumption, or Virtue Signaling.
If EVs were about the environment, they'd all be bare bones models with every ohm of output (if that's the correct term!) going into pushing the vehicle down the road and managing the battery. Think 1980's Panda or Polo.
Instead they're all these super cool and gadgety luxury cars where a decent percentage of the power is going into running electrics.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
As I understand it all EV’s start life with a carbon debt as the manufacture requires more energy than the ICE equivalent. An ICE car then generates more pollution through it’s lifecycle with the point at which the EV is “greener” being determined by mileage and the source of the electricity used to charge it. Reuters published some data at the end of last year showing for a Tesla in the US the crossover point is on average 13500 miles.
I don’t think it can be said EVs are better than ICE cars or vice versa as there are so many other factors and variables at play. Using the Tesla example above the crossover point is probably lower if you charge in a sunny state versus a cold one. The choice of both is available and there’s nothing wrong with either option (or hybrid) if it works for you.
Agent_zed
Established Member
yep, been saying this for years. The car I do think fits the bill though is the renault twizy. It might not float a lot of peoples boats but it is exactly the right thinking though.
Imagine if everyone commuting drove one of these. Traffic would instantly be a fraction of what it is now purely from the fact they are physically smaller. There would likely be less accidents as things like accidentally moving into another lane would be less of a problem as again much more room on the road.
Then actual parking would be so much better. Instantly more space available both for parking and passing down a street. Some of the streets in bristol the bin lorries can't even get down with current parked cars. Even parking in multistory carparks would be easier as so much more room to get out. If you re-arranged the lines you'd get 3 Twizys in the same space as 2 normal cars.
Yes, there will be someone who says I NEED to commute 100miles a day and pull 1500kg trailer through the scottish highlands, but 99% of people literally drive a 1ton+ car to move ~100kg of person.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Saw that video a few days ago; the bloke waffles on for ages without actually saying anything, then eventually explains that he borrowed heavily to get an expensive car that was likely to depreciate quickly, and was then surprised it had depreciated even more after a newer version of the same model had been released. Seemed to be less about EVs than poor financial choices.
At the moment, the world extracts about 15 billion tons of coal, oil and gas, per year, none of which is recyclable and all of which is polluting, both in its extraction and in its burning. Contrast that with the International Energy Agency's estimate for 2040, of 28-40 million tons of minerals for low carbon technologies, at the height of the transition. Almost all of which will be recyclable. NO contest.
We have a VW E-Up, about as basic as we could find - does all we ask of it. I agree with your point about switching one kind of peni$ extension for another, but not so much about the virtue signalling.
John on the Wirral
Established Member
Hi, Even though I run a plug-in hybryd I do not see see full EV as the future under existing technology and yes, I too have never understood why the local shopping car market has not been hit. As a retired DT teacher we developed hybrid and full EV vehicles for competition - endurance and hill climbing. What we soon realised was the 100% efficiency of electric motive power and this where the problem lies. Car makers have seen an opportunity to cater for the 0-60 brigade and neglected the shopping car market but not to worry as the Chinese are quickly filling in this gap! My PHEV happens to suit my purpose as a retired person - lots of short journeys. However, I would never wish to own one so I lease my Kias. At my age is great to have got rid of car concerns eg MOTs and I/m fortunate enough to be able to afford it but with a 7 year warranty I have te option to keep it. Having spent a long time involved in vehicle technology I do appreciate that I need to use my ICE now and again even if it's just to stop it getting rusty! - and do but I normally expect to 1000 miles between fill-ups. I charge at 7.5p/unit (also use this cheap rate on my washing machine and dishwasher) I spent £57 last year to charge my car and very little on petrol. Happy chapppy and I have the sense of doing the right by not burning petrol in my local area.
Does anyone know what happened to that professor in the South West who invented batteries made from old beer cans whilst not rechargeable gave a very impressive range. If it had been April I would have said it was an April Fools joke but my mate followed it up and found that he had financial backers and had bought the name "Austin" but that is all I know. Cheers John on the Wirral
Does anyone know what happened to that professor in the South West who invented batteries made from old beer cans whilst not rechargeable gave a very impressive range. If it had been April I would have said it was an April Fools joke but my mate followed it up and found that he had financial backers and had bought the name "Austin" but that is all I know. Cheers John on the Wirral
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
That could be because you've read the wrong things, but even if it were true, there will almost certainly be more and more wind and solar power as time goes by(I know, just shifting the pollution to the sun..). There is an immensely influential anti-EV lobby out there, just as there was pro tobacco products.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I think you'll find that there are quite a few smaller, more basic EVs around. They're probably not as salient as the big SUVs, in fact the only way I discern some is from the green flash on the number plate.
There are a lot of big flashy ones too, I'll grant you that. One of the locals here has an EV Porsche that goes for north of 100k, my grandson thought batman was visiting when he saw it in our driveway.
artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
I never knew there were right and wrong things to read, I'd be keen to know how to tell the difference.
The EU forecasts 30 million , or is it 300 million, electric cars on the road soon, so 7 or 8 years down the road there's going to be around that number of batteries to dispose of annually.
If the pro EV lobby gets their way that will increase.
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