Anyone used Ohishi and/or king 10k stones?

[AESamuel]

Hi,

Has anyone used the 10k variants of the Ohishi or king waterstones and could give me some feedback on their performance?
Specifically the hardness of the stones, speed, and finish they leave on a blade?
I currently use a shapton pro up to 8k then finish on a strop, but the shapton leaves a very distinct scratch pattern (which many do consider a benefit) so I'd like another step up in terms of polish.

Many thanks,
Asa

 

[G S Haydon]

Have you thought about Autosol on a piece of wood?

The Shapton 12000 is quite good value and works well.

 

[AESamuel]

Have you thought about Autosol on a piece of wood?

The Shapton 12000 is quite good value and works well.

Thanks for the reply. Yes the autosol route is fairly effective, but for my use case a stone would be preferable.

I actually sold you the shapton 12k it is a great stone and is very effective on tools, but I'm now looking for a stone with more of a polishing action as apposed to a cutting action.

 

[shed9]

All my water stones are Ohishi, I have about five or six with the 10k being my highest grit. I bought them as they don't need soaking and just need a light spray before use. The very low grits require soaking but the only low grit I have is the 220 and I tend to use diamond plates at that level anyhow.

The 10k stone gives a fantastic final polish and edge. Can't really compare speed or hardness to other 10k stones as my only other significant experience of sharpening edge tools is a Tormek T7 and some diamond plates of grits under 1k. If / when I need to replace I'd happily buy another if that helps at all.

For what it's worth I bought mine from Classic hand tools, I think they started stocking them because of their connections to LN, might be worth having a chat with them before you push the 'buy now button'.

 

[G S Haydon]

Thanks for the reply. Yes the autosol route is fairly effective, but for my use case a stone would be preferable.

I actually sold you the shapton 12k it is a great stone and is very effective on tools, but I'm now looking for a stone with more of a polishing action as apposed to a cutting action.

Ha! DW said the 12000 works well and if I wanted an uplift to try some polish on a block of wood.

 

[AESamuel]

All my water stones are Ohishi, I have about five or six with the 10k being my highest grit. I bought them as they don't need soaking and just need a light spray before use. The very low grits require soaking but the only low grit I have is the 220 and I tend to use diamond plates at that level anyhow.

The 10k stone gives a fantastic final polish and edge. Can't really compare speed or hardness to other 10k stones as my only other significant experience of sharpening edge tools is a Tormek T7 and some diamond plates of grits under 1k. If / when I need to replace I'd happily buy another if that helps at all.

For what it's worth I bought mine from Classic hand tools, I think they started stocking them because of their connections to LN, might be worth having a chat with them before you push the 'buy now button'.

Thanks! Which stone below the 10k do you use? (depending on what grits can be skipped might give me an idea of speed)

 

[D_W]

I did! I took lots of pictures and timed how long each stone took to use. something like your shapton 8k would be better followed by a nice piece of cast and 1 micron diamonds if you're looking for better fineness and polish. 1 micron diamonds will create a very long wearing edge (probably 20% longer on a plane than a shapton 8k, and may replace the 8k entirely).

The cast must be good quality. so if you could find yard scrap in the size of a stone and get it blanchard ground for about $40 or so (what it costs here - and everything skill based is high priced here - we don't do small local skill these days).

There's no free lunch with stones. I've not tried ohishi, but the reality of what's in stones means that there is no such thing as the fast and fine stone.

The sigma power 13k is the only really fine stone at a reasonable price, and the gokumyo and shapton types in the 0.5 micron size are obviously good. When they are closely graded and below 1 micron, they will be slow. Anecdotal experience from people will tell you that one is faster than another and finer or this or that, but it'll never bear out on a test. They're all alumina of some type.

 

[D_W]

I'd show microscopic pictures if I ever came across an ohishi stone, but for what they cost and what they are, I'm not going there. I'd suspect something like the shapton 12k or between the 12k shapton and the 13k sigma (Which are quite far apart despite being very close in average particle size). Ohishi doesn't tell what they are, but it doesn't matter as average grit size doesn't matter that much unless there aren't any larger stray particles.

Last comment - have you tried the shapton after soaking for 15 minutes and fresh-lapping the surface? The even-ness of the stone is much greater like that. It should make a visual polish with no visible scratches without a loupe or scope. If it's not doing that, something else is the problem.

 

[D_W]

I've posted these pictures before, but here's an indication of how misleading grit and micron sizes can be. Shapton is three times as fast as the sigma power stone at removing a similar prior scratch, but the picture shows why (this is not a soaked and slurried shapton, just dry with a spritz).

Note that the shapton claims 1.12 microns, the SP 0.73. A picture of graded 1 micron diamonds is below:

shapton:

sigma power

and actual one micron graded diamond (The little noise at the edge on the SP 13k is the product of abrasive working its way around the bend). A wonderfully fine inexpensive stone (relatively), but slow.

1 micron diamonds - apologies, older camera, same scope and magnification - so light is different. Change from windows 7 to 10 forced buying a new top tube camera for the metallurgical scope. The little dots are just oil. Focus less on the scratches in the flat bits on all of these and more on the uniformity around the edge.

And for comparison, here's dursol on pine.

The very slight rounding at the tip of the edge with dursol on pine is actually protective and in generally will create a longer lasting edge. Compare that to the actual wear of a dull plane iron, the minutiae at the edge is minimal - durability comes from preventing failure first.

 

[D_W]

The ohishi just came along too late when I was on my spree or I'd have tried them, too. I don't have chosera pictures here, either - I'd sold the 10k before I got a metallurgical scope, but it was less fine than the shapton 12k with a graded size closer to 2 microns (it was fast, though)

 

[D_W]

(disregard my comment above about the 8k and scratches, I see a visual polish on the 12k, or did before I sold the stones).

I think the explosion of all of these baked or resin based stones with alumina is a direct result of the market going toward amateurs. I am an amateur, by the way, and have had several hundred stones, so not levying criticism at anyone. The whole I'm rubber and you're glue thing will get me.

I never found any decent stone that couldn't make sharp, which was part of the reason my curiosity ran from one to the next.

The finest feeling stone I ever used wasn't the chosera, either. It was a frictionite 825 (which is also only about 8-10k in fineness, but the feel is divine). You won't find them, so no need to look around.

 

[D_W]

If there is anyone in the US with a 10k ohishi, I'll gladly establish a scratch pattern for it and add it to the sharpening stone omnibus (which was posted on wood central).

 

[shed9]

Thanks! Which stone below the 10k do you use? (depending on what grits can be skipped might give me an idea of speed)

Hi AESamuel, I've got in Ohishi stones;

220
1000
3000
6000
10000

I'm sure I had another stone but I think it was an 8k and it's probably been used by my step daughter who got into sharpening after we got her some Japanese kitchen knives recently as a gift. I rarely use the 220 as (noted up there ^) I tend to use diamond plates for that level of grind now. Depending on the condition of the edge I'm prepping, I'll go through the set of diamond plates which are fine / coarse, then move to the Ohishi's in order, 1k to 10k. I suspect I don't need to go through the whole grit range, it's probably more habit than anything. I'm in the camp of actually enjoying sharpening these days so take from that what you will. They are value for money in my opinion and as above would buy again.

 

[AESamuel]

Thanks D_W and Shed9 again for the info!

D_W I appreciate the photos you've attached. I've been interested in the sigma power stones and from your photos it does look finer than the shapton 12k, but I thought I had read they were relatively soft? Would you expect it to cut fast enough to remove the shapton 8k scratches?

EDIT: I just found it was your post about the sigma on wood centeral that I'd read saying it was slow and quite soft

 

[pe2dave]

Hi,

Has anyone used the 10k variants of the Ohishi or king waterstones and could give me some feedback on their performance?
Specifically the hardness of the stones, speed, and finish they leave on a blade?


Many thanks,
Asa

Yes, OK as 'final finish' stones, but retired in favour of diamond stones (my choice).

 

[D_W]

Hah, I did those posts over a short time interval to get a good idea of how stones compare relatively. It's hard to compare feel on different objects or long time intervals.

The sigma power is probably only slightly harder than a king 8000. It's easy to gouge and works far better when soaked a little.

But it's honestly and closely graded.

I think loosely graded stones are purposely made as such to make them seem fast relative to their claimed fineness, just as buffing compounds are done.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I have a Toishi-Ohishi 10000 as part of a combination stone (3000 / 10000) and cannot fault these stones, by far the best range of waterstones I have tried. I bought them as they are stocked locally. Have tried several cheaper ones over the years but these were superior in every way. I can just pull these out and start using them without having to leave them in water for 15 mins first. I also like their large size (205 mm x 75 mm x 30 mm). No reservations from my limited experiences.