Any saw makers out there?

[luke burgess]

I'm in need of a saw plate to replace an incredibly pitted one on a 14" 19th century R Sorby tenon saw!
I've found a supplier of CS80 sprung tempered steel at 0.7 or 0.8mm (that I've been advised would do)
but have to buy a piece 2000 x 200 at a cost of
£165 delivered, nearly nine times more than i need!
The bit i need is 405 x 125mm
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[Argus]

You may consider re-purposing a plate on a new saw....... decapitate the handle etc.

Alternatively, why not see if Flynn's will sell you spare plate of the right dimensions that you can cut to shape? They are in your neck of the woods.

https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/
I found them very helpful in the past with small one-offs, but admittedly it was quite a few years ago.

Good luck with the repair.

 

[Orraloon]

Blackburn tools but it may be expensive with postage.

Blackburn Tools - Toothed backsaw blades

Other option is buy a hardpoint saw and use the steel plate from that. Cut off the hardened teeth and file your own.
Regards
John

 

[deema]

I’d ask to see if another 8 people would like a saw plate!

 

[Jameshow]

I’d ask to see if another 8 people would like a saw plate!

I'm in!

£20?

Fancy a project!

I could transport any down south...

 

[Jacob]

What's the point?
Buy another saw and swap the handles if not good enough.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_....m570.l1313&_nkw=14"+Sorby+tenon+saw&_sacat=0I'd also ask myself if the pitting was so bad as to make the saw unserviceable. Very often it isn't.

 

[luke burgess]

Thanks you all.
Re repurposing, i have a big old and clean groves hand saw that never gets used that i contemplated sacrificing but it feels wrong!
Hardpoint option, i'm pretty sure the plate won't be tempered and in any case i;ve never seen one big enough to get 14 x 4.5"out that i need.
Re Im in, if i get 5 people up for it ill go for it cut it up and post it to you at cost.
eg 10% of 2000 x 200 =400 X 100 and 10% of £165 =£16.50 and at a guess £2 to post within UK.
And pitting was a understatement,the first inch from the toe had gone and the handle was held on by the brass back, no steel there either but the bit in the middle is now the plate on a 12" back saw that's a belter!

 

[okeydokey]

Like Jacob said and unless I'm missing something (perhaps the saw has emotional family connection) really why bother.
All you will end up with is a diy saw blade on a 1800 something R Sorby handle.
Try used Tool dealers they may have a tenon saw with a broken handle or ebay they have loads of saws --- to repurpose of various sizes or a good saw and swap the blade

 

[Orraloon]

I also thought the steel on a hardpoint would not be suitable but I have seen it done by some on the Australian forum.
How to Make Handsaws - Australian Wood Review
Shim steel is another source.
DIY Frame Saw Blade from Carbon Steel Shim - YouTube
Regards
John

 

[Adam W.]

Thanks you all.
Re repurposing, i have a big old and clean groves hand saw that never gets used that i contemplated sacrificing but it feels wrong!
Hardpoint option, i'm pretty sure the plate won't be tempered and in any case i;ve never seen one big enough to get 14 x 4.5"out that i need.
Re Im in, if i get 5 people up for it ill go for it cut it up and post it to you at cost.
eg 10% of 2000 x 200 =400 X 100 and 10% of £165 =£16.50 and at a guess £2 to post within UK.
And pitting was a understatement,the first inch from the toe had gone and the handle was held on by the brass back, no steel there either but the bit in the middle is now the plate on a 12" back saw that's a belter!

Sell the Groves, they are worth decent amounts of cash.

 

[luke burgess]

I think the back story's required!
I inherited some old tools in the 80s from my grandad (motorbike maintenance stuff mostly)
but with it were 4 R sorby brass backs tied together with a strip of leather ,caked in rust and mouldy split handles (about as bad a condition as i've ever seen.)
We think they may have come from his grandad who was a cabinet maker but no name stamps on any of them to verify.
They re surfaced recently and i decided to salvage the split nuts before chucking them, the 9"plate looked vaguely serviceable and so it began.
I now have 3 good users ,i had to make two new handles and turn some brass split nuts so there a bit like Triggers brush (only fools and horses)
so i'm left with the big 16 "(sorry said 14" earlier) who's plate was cut down to a 12".
Of the four it was the most unusual with 4.5"depth of cut, the length and rosewood handle.
I never intended so much work( nine hours so far) when i started out but seems a shame to stop short of the full compliment now!
Ordinarily it wouldn't be worth the effort..
I'll try and post some pictures next week, shame i didn't take a before shot..
Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Jameshow]

I have some old saws you could have.
I'm away till after Easter but happy to meet up if of interest?

I'm in Baildon btw.

Cheers James

 

[luke burgess]

I have some old saws you could have.
I'm away till after Easter but happy to meet up if of interest?

I'm in Baildon btw.

Cheers James
[/QUOTE

James.

I grew up just down the road in Shipley and spend my weekends
up the road in Horsforth.
If you have one big enough to get 14 x 4.5"that would be fantastic.
More fitting to use a bit of old steel.

Thanks allot
Luke.

 

[IWW]

I also thought the steel on a hardpoint would not be suitable but I have seen it done by some on the Australian forum.
How to Make Handsaws - Australian Wood Review
Shim steel is another source.
DIY Frame Saw Blade from Carbon Steel Shim - YouTube
Regards
John

I will fess up as the author of the article John pointed to. Yes, the steel they use for hardpoints is hardened & tempered to pretty typical saw hardness. If you think about it, it has to be much the same as any saw blade to work as a saw - I don't think it takes much imagination to predict what would happen to a piece of dead-soft 0.020" steel the first time it jammed a little! I've re-purposed many a hardpont blade successfully & only one, very cheap example seemed a wee bit on the soft side as judged by filing it, but it was within the range of other saws I've sharpened & performed quite satisfactorily.

The impulse hardening of the teeth extends no more than a mm above the gullets, so all you need is to take your trusty angle-grinder and a 1mm cutoff wheel and cut off the discoloured part (best done against a guide if you want straight lines). If you cut quickly, there is very little local heat, but I like to clamp the plate to a piece of 5 or 6mm steel to act as the guide and also a heat-sink. At the most, you will get a few dags of metal that heated & cooled so quickly they hardened, so run (an old) file along the cut edge a few times 'til it cuts evenly & you have a nice, clean edge.

Tempered 1095 shim stock makes excellent blades. If anything, it's slightly on the hard side for filing, but I've struck a few old saws that were a good deal harder again, so it's not outside the pale. And btw, I've not found very hard plate translates into the sharpness lasting noticeably longer, so it's not worth chasing up on that account.

If you haven't cut teeth from scratch before, it's tedious & a saw that size will eat up at least one file. A saw-sharpener shouldn't charge much more than the cost of the file to tooth it, & you'll have nice, even teeth to start with.....

You can get away with a fair bit of pitting on a saw blade, but badly pitted blades are an eyesore, and when you get to pitted areas, teeth often break off as you try to set them, which is even more of an eyesore. I can't imagine great-great grand-dad minding in the least if you replace the blade & make the saw serviceable again.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

[heimlaga]

I have found that handsaw blades are too thick for backsaws.

peronally I would not hesitate to shift the worn out blade on a saw I have come to like. If my favourite handsaw reaches that point in life there will be no original material left in it.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Just a question for my interest. What do people consider to be the part of a saw that makes it “the original saw”. Bit of a Trigger’s broom question really.
For me I consider the blade to be the working part and would quite happily replace the handle and consider it the same saw. I’m not so sure the other way around.

 

[Adam W.]

I would say the plate is the consumable part, not the handle.

 

[Jameshow]

Niether I'd say the nuts are the essential element!

 

[Pete Hughes]

Morning Luke,
Have you tried Jakob Snell, in my opinion he’s brilliant and very helpful.
Pete

 

[IWW]

Just a question for my interest. What do people consider to be the part of a saw that makes it “the original saw”. Bit of a Trigger’s broom question really.
For me I consider the blade to be the working part and would quite happily replace the handle and consider it the same saw. I’m not so sure the other way around.

If it's a question of preserving "originality" then I suppose both handle & blade are necessary (but what to do if a screw is missing? ). Any part of the saw can provide a connection to the past, when it comes down to it. My personal preference is for a decent working tool, if it has a connection with the ancestors, that can give me a warm feeling when I take it out to use, but I want the thing to work properly for me, or any warm fuzzy feelings soon change to something else.

People differ - there's those as think just cleaning the thing erases too much of its history; those who think nothing of replacing any damaged or worn bits; & every shade in between. The old joke about grandfathers axe which has lasted all these years (with just a new head & a couple of new handles) has already been mentioned. It's absurd in one way, of course, but yet a sort of connection does remain. Sentiment is not a logical element in the equation.....

Cheers,