Any riveting tips?

[M_Chavez]

Hi All.

I believe there are a few airplane engineers on this forum.

Are there any tips or know-hows for riveting metal parts together?
Surely it can't be as easy as just whacking it with a hammer?

In particular, riveting steel to aluminium (with mild steel rivets).
and riveting with brass rivets (if it's any different from steel).

Anything to know/keep in mind?

Thank you.

 

[Dalboy]

All I know is that the rivet needs to be the correct length and that you start by hammering over the rivet but not straight on top but a small circular motion to that it deforms the top evenly around before using the snap to form the nice dome. If the rivet is too long you will see excess material form outside the dome if too little you will not get a nice even dome.
The same applies if riveting into a countersink to long and you have a lot to clean up too little and not enough to fill the countersink.
There is a book that explains how long a rivet should be.
This is how I was taught but that was so long ago I may have forgotten something or even got some parts wrong so hope someone comes along with a better explanation.
You could also ask on the model engineers website forum Model Engineers

 

[Sachakins]

The short answer is no. Alumunium rivets in steel will cause corrosion to set in and destroy the rivets, leading to failure in the fastener. Likewise, it’s the same reason you can’t use steel rivets in alumunium.

Preventing galvanic corrosion means choosing metals that are close together in the galvanic series

 

[RobNichols]

Best to use a rivet setter and die. Something like this. It's been a long time since my apprenticeship when we did a lot of riveting. This looks like a reasonaly guide to the process.

 

[Sachakins]

One job I had to do as apprentice, was to rivet pins in chain links. But those were riveted around the circumference of the pin.

Took me and another 8 days to rivet the chain. But each pin to rivet was 3" diameter and 16" long. The plate links were about 18" long and 3" thick. So 5 plates was 15" overall chain width, and around 250 foot in length.

Luckily you do a section of about 10 ft, the chain was on its side on the floor and we used air hammers to form the rivet, which meant little weight in the tool. then it would be craned onto the draw bed of the machine and someone else riveted to each section. Never envied them that job as the chain lay flat on the bed, so you held the air hammer horizontal to finish it, that was hardworking as the air hammers are really heavy.

 

[ChaiLatte]

Are there any tips or know-hows for riveting metal parts together?

These people might know one or two things on the subject:

https://archive.org/details/F16TrainingManual.RivetingSolidShankConventionalRivets

 

[profchris]

Just checking you're not building an actual aircraft! If so, I'm guessing it must be under the LAA self-building rules, in which case your riveting needs to satisfy your inspector, so her or she is the one who you should be asking.

 

[M_Chavez]

@profchris
It's a human-powered helicopter. Because it doesn't have an engine, it does not have to pass the rigorous certification.
I believe the safety argument is used to stop innovation and prevent new players from entering the market...

No, it's just accordion reeds. 0.5-0.8mm spring steel tongue riveted to a 3-4mm aluminium or brass plate. But given the forces that act on a vibrating reed, I want to do the job as best as I can so it doesn't end up shifting, jamming and rattling. Therefore thought it's a good idea to read up on riveting instead of just whacking it as hard as I can.

 

[Tony51]

Pop rivets a lot easier and available in the metal of your choice and length.
Tony.

 

[profchris]

Pop rivets wouldn't do for accordion reeds. Too wide, and I suspect too soft to hold them firmly enough.

I only know accordions as a very occasional (and very bad) player, but I think you have one advantage in that the rivets are hidden. So you can concentrate on a good connection, rather than appearance.

From my extensive riveting experience (school metalwork some 55 years ago) I'd go about it like this:

• dome head rivets with the dome at the reed side
• make a plate with a cup in it, just a fraction shorter than the height of the rivet head, to act as an anvil. I'd try a burr on a Dremel for this.
• countersink the bottom of the reed-holding plate, to bash the protruding stem of the rivet into. I'd do a couple of test pieces to work out how much stem to leave so it filled the countersink with a little excess.
• Once all rivets are in, file off the excess at the underside of the plate.
• If any rivets seem a little loose, tighten them up using a centre punch to spread the metal in the countersink.

Of course, if any real metalworkers tell you different, do that instead!

 

[Sachakins]

Pop rivets will be fine if you have space to put a washer behind the hidden head to evenly spread the load so less chance of distortion.

 

[ChaiLatte]

Pop rivets will be fine if you have space to put a washer behind the hidden head to evenly spread the load so less chance of distortion.

He says he is riveting spring steel to brass or aluminium. Where can you see the possibility of distortion in this sandwich?

 

[paulrbarnard]

Well that wasn’t what I expected. I was expecting riveting tips not tips about riveting

 

[John Brown]

For an accordion, I'd choose folk rivets.

 

[M_Chavez]

I think that tips about rivet tips are riveting.

 

[J-G]

For an accordion, I'd choose folk rivets.

I presume that you mean 'Bifurcated' rivets which surely would protrude too far below the reed and indeed no where near as secure as would be needed in this application.

 

[John Brown]

I presume that you mean 'Bifurcated' rivets which surely would protrude too far below the reed and indeed no where near as secure as would be needed in this application.

No, it was just a pathetic play on words. "Folk" rivets as opposed to "Pop" rivets, as accordions are generally featured in folk music, and rarely in pop music.

Another poor frog meets an early demise...

 

[J-G]

No, it was just a pathetic playing words. "Folk" rivets as opposed to "Pop" rivets, as accordions are generally featured in folk music, and rarely in pop music.

Another poor frog meets an early demise...

Ah - - - Wooosh....... totally missed the 'humour' concept, I have only just arisen - yet to take tea!

 

[profchris]

Are pop rivets strong enough for this use? The A above middle C vibrates 440 time per second when played, and the air is forced through a tiny opening just about the size of the reed, so there's a fair amount of force involved. Accordions are loud!

Pop rivets are soft compared to brass or steel, so might the vibration be enough to deform the rivet so that the reed becomes loose? That would be a musical disaster, as it would buzz horribly.

 

[mwinfrance]

it would appear that the rivets are made from iron
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334344982233this might also be of use
http://accordions.com/vociarmoniche/en_reed1.htmand this
https://frment.com/general-parts/accordion-screws-findings/although these , from France appear to be solid aluminium
https://www.accordeons.fr/89-rivets-diversin Italian what you are asking about ( rivets for reeds for accordion ) are called
rivetti ad ancia per fisarmonica
You can search for that but shipping etc might hurt a bit.
there's also a reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/Accordion/ and Reed Makers
Both of which you may well already know about HTH