Any metallurgists on board?

[Neil Dyball]

All,

I recently turned my first pewter as an experiment, the small quantity of pewter having been obtained from a fellow club member. I've found a supplier, Tiranti, who do mail order at around £21 per kilo plus p&p.

Whilst trawling the net I came across a few references to "plumbers lead free solder" which appears to be a very similar mix of metals to pewter, but which can (sometimes) be found much cheaper than the 'craft suppliers' price. (The solder seems to be roughly 99% tin 1% copper, pewter being about 92% tin plus copper and antimony)

So, does anyone know if this could be cast in the same way as pewter? Anyone ever tried it or seen it done, and therefore what it looks like polished?

Cheers,

Neil.

 

[Turn It In]

Hi Neil,
Looks like a proposition but I believe that the reduced copper and antimony will make a significant difference to the strength as solder is very soft and pliable. I will probably be as shiny but will mark and dent very easily.
I'm sure that is what you will find.
Regards,
Ian

 

[Wanlock Dod]

Hi Neil,

As Ian says, the antimony is there to improve the hardness and casting properties. There is some info on this site which you might find useful.

That said, having a trial with a bit of solder might be worthwhile if you have some kicking around (apparently the old lead containing solders melt at even lower temperatures, so might be easier to use for stuff that won't be handled much or used for food).

Cheers,

Dod

 

[Neil Dyball]

Cheers Guys.

I think you're right about the hardness and antimony, having read a bit more this evening.

I might try melting small quantities of solder into the voids in a burr I want to turn soon. Hardness won't be an issue in these small areas and it'll be easier to 'drip' the solder in than try and pour from a large vessel like a saucepan.

Thanks for your help.

Neil.

 

[Bodrighy]

It would be interesting to see the effect from dripping molten metal into the holes. I would expect there to be some charring which could look effective. Would it stick to the wood though? Let us know how the experiment goes Neil

Pete

 

[chipchaser]

Hi Neil,
Wood's metal may be suitable as it melts at 70C, see this Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood%27s_metal

I have used solder for plumbing and electrical work. The surface of plumbers solder does turn dull grey after a time. I think electrical solder with resin flux core is much more expensive. Both melt at quite high temperature, about 180 - 220C, compared to Wood' metal. Another Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder

Try this firm for Wood's metal (Bendalloy or Cerrobend etc):
http://www.bendalloy.co.uk/

If you do use an alloy which melts above 100C be sure that any mould or hole you fill is completely dry as any free water turns to steam instantly as the molten metal touches it and the result is very exciting to say the least. Seriously it could be very dangerous so suitable protective clothing is a good idea.

Regards
Graham

 

[tekno.mage]

Any solder or alloy containing lead will turn an unattractive dull grey colour over time. Lead free solders usually have a higher melting point than solders containing lead. The electrical version of lead-free solder that I have used does appear to stay bright & shiny - but is cored with fluxes which may either be difficult to remove from wood, or may stain it. A flux free, lead-free, plumbers variety is probably worth experimenting with, but I'd imagine you'd have to help the cast parts stay in the voids after they cool down with some thin superglue as they are likely to contract on cooling.

The alloy of tin, copper & antimony that we are now calling Pewter, I believe used to be called "Britannia metal" and was used in Edwardian & Victorian times to make cast trinkets & boxes as a cheap substitute for silver. Old fashioned Pewter used to contain lead and also turned a dull grey colour over time.

£21 a kilo for modern pewter seems a bit steep - I've got a large bar of the stuff (which must weigh at least 1kg) I bought when Simon Hope came and did a demo at our club last year and I'm failrly sure I only paid £15 for it - but I imaging that pricing is dependant on current metal commodity (tin) prices, so may fluctate wildly!

tekno.mage

 

[Neil Dyball]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the info.

I'd definitley like to re-iterate the comment above about using bone dry timbers for any casting. Simon Hope mentioned this when he did the demo I saw - 'spitting' monlten pewter sounds highly dangerous! I also do all my melting/casting outdoors - just in case of accidents with flames/molten metal.

On the subject of Simon Hope, I think he buys such large quantities that he can sell it on at a reasonable price as one of his sidelines. I mght drop him a line and see if he does it mail order.

Lead free solder is what I plan to have an experiment with and see how it 'turns' out - I'll let you know sometime.

Cheers,

Neil.

 

[NickWelford]

You can pick up pewter mugs for very little cost at car boot sales - 50p is my best so far......

 

[Bodrighy]

A safe and easier option id to use aluminium powder with resin. The effect is pretty much the same as the pewter. Not sure how it would work out costwise as I don't know how much of each you would use for a given task. It is certainly good for smaller work.

Pete

 

[Jenx]

Hiya Neil ....
I'm originally an 'old school' plumber, from the days when we still used to sweat big tafts and ovals on lead pipe with tallow and a moleskin.
( well only just ! .. )

As has been mentioned and discussed ... nearly ALL soft solders will eventually discolour into a dull dark grey...

The 'original' leaded Solders in Bar form may be worth having a 'play with' .. they are just about still available in the old 'grades' ... I'd be tempted to try a bit of experimantation with Grades B, D & J ( J if you can get it ... its the rarest of the three .. 'D' being the most common. )

It could be used to produce some interesting stuff IMHO ... don't 'Melt' it into a liquid as such, but 'work it' whilst it is in its 'plastic range' ... i.e. neither liquid not fully solid. - its relatively easy to do, with a gentle gasflame and in the absence of a moleskin or leather to 'manipulate' it, a small hand-pad of simple cardboard will works almost as well.

Once 'roughted into a general shape' , it can be refined with a rasp and finer grades of files, and 'flashed' with a gas-flame to bring about a decent finished surface to it.

Interesting idea !


( similar to the way also that vehicle body-repairs were done with lead / solder at one time, before the days of Cataloy / Isopon ! )

:lol: 8) :lol: