Another P/T Thread.....

[stockonehundred]

Hi and firstly apologies for another thread on this. I have read many, but my question hasn't been answered by any of them.

First off background on my work and what I need the p/t for. I make furniture from recycled wood. I'm no seasoned cabinet maker, but been doing this for around 3 years. I have my own workshop and everything I need except a p/t. The largest stock I'll be using is around 10ft lengths of 3x7 joist, which is typically made of slow grown pine. I'm not entirely sure of the origins, but it's weighty, close grain stuff.

I'm guessing something like an Elektra Beckum HC 260 won't really cope, owing to the lack of weight cast iron brings, but I'm hoping it would. Would I be better off aiming a little higher, like the Axminster AW 106PT, or similar? I would like to spend as little as possible, but I need one now so no time to save. I don't want to go for something lighter and find it can't perform, but money is tight. If anyone has used the Elektra, or similar, with similar size stock can you say it works well with it?

Thanks...

I forgot to mention that I'm looking to buy second hand...

 

[mikefab]

I had an EB HC260 and it was no fun putting a 2.5m 9x2 over it. The tables on mine were pretty short (800mm), I think some of the new ones have longer tables but they will still be pretty light weight.

The axminster would likely feel a bit more secure to put big stuff over, as it has a lot more mass and cast iron tables.

How about an old Sedgwick or similar? You get some good bang for your buck if you find a good deal but it may involve waiting or travelling so might not suit your circumstances.

 

[stockonehundred]

Thanks Mike. The older Sedgwicks are out of my range. I'm looking at £500 absolute tops and that needs to be a great deal. Kicking myself at missing a Dewalt 1150 for under £400. Was in great condition too!!! The EB's are going for between £300 and £400, but the cast irons are hard to find at these prices.

 

[mikefab]

My EB went for £245.... But it was in Northumberland. And it wasn't in great nick.

 

[stockonehundred]

I doubt it would have gone for more in the SE. The ones I've seen for £350-ish were in top condition.... I think I will have to wait it out, or plane some timber from the money tree and see notes flying out the dust extraction shoot!!

 

[RobinBHM]

Do you need to flatten 10'0 lengths -you would need a pretty large surface planer to do that well. If that length is the occasional longest length then, you could probably get away with an elecktra beckum, with a helper and possibly some rollers.

The ends of the boards will need supporting or you will make the beds sag, or tip the machine!

It would thickness 7 x 3 ok, but might be laborious as you could only take 1mm off a time on that width.

I started with a elektra beckum, they are great machines, very well designed and built despite being a budget machine. I found the thicknesser very good, geared quite slow, but good finish, stainless steel beds that benefit from frequent waxing. The feed rollers always gripped well and rarely did I get wood stuck. Didnt do 10ft lengths of 7 x 3 though!

 

[Eric The Viking]

You might consider a pair of decent roller stands to assist.

I bought some really cheap and nasty ones from Rutlands a while back and they're awkward to adjust, but otherwise really handy. If you have a separate thicknesser then they can stay set, but for the over & under sort you do have to adjust them to match the height of the thicknesser table.

I've put some fairly chunky stuff through, but my p/t is only 7" max, so not all that heavy.

 

[PAC1]

If you only use recycled wood I would start by considering what is the cheapest disposable blade system and then buy a machine that accommodates the system. You should probably look for a machine with a tersa block. If you use standard blocks it will cost a fortune in replacement knives every time you hit a nail, screw or whatever that is buried in the wood.

 

[jonnio]

I was gonna get the hc260 for same reason. It will do the job but i think you will want to soon upgrade. We just got one with quick change blades instead (hammer a26) so we are not wasting time setting them up after skimming off the top layer from old pine joist which blunts the blades.
If money is tight then the hc would be a good choice till you can save up from selling some nice bits of furniture.
It wont take long. Then you can then use your old hc for the first few passes then switch over to a better machine. I been using reclaimed for nearly 30 years btw! Cheers

 

[blackrodd]

As Robin has said you have rather a tall order there planing 3m lengths of 7x3 on such a light duty machine.
The Bigger the stuff, bigger the machine needed, I'm afraid.
You really need a cast, solid, machine, the models mentioned wouldn't last very long, I would say, not in you're punishing work environment.
Regards Rodders

 

[heimlaga]

On what scale are you working?
Occasional hobby?...regular hobby?... side income?..... part time job?

I think all those machines mentioned are too small for the job. it is very difficult and time consuming to surface plane a piece of wood that is longer that one and a half time the total lenght of your surfacer. Even if there are ways to do it they rarely produce a good result.

You need either a machine with wide knives that can be resharpened many times plus a grinder or you need a machine with a tersa head. Those narrow proprietary knives found on most light duty machines would be too costly in the long run. Recykled wood is hard on the knives.

For 300-500 pounds you should be able to find an old cast iron planer/thicknesser that is good enough to do the job. It will almost certainly need new bearings and some guards to make it safer plus a few other repairs. If you are a bit handy with metalwork and know some machinist who can machine parts for you between better paid jobs the rebuild would cost some 200-500 pounds. That would make 500-1000 pounds in total cost.

There is no cheaper way of getting a machine that can do what you are asking for. I am rather poor and also fairly good at minimizing costs and I am pretty sure you cannot get much further in cost minimizing than I can.

Good luck!

 

[stockonehundred]

Thanks all for the valuable input. Hitting nails won't be an issue as all will be removed. I use a metal detector to ensure this. I will only be thicknessing the 7x3 lengths, taking it down by half inch or so for aesthetics and to ensure a flat surface for the steel legs and stress bars. Sorry I should have mentioned that. This will, hopefully, become my livelihood and I honestly don't know how often I'll be machining this size. The intended use is table tops and initially this will be slow moving stock. Each order for this particular table will need 4 lengths of 7x3 thicknessed down. I have some stock now and an order for a table after I explained to someone what I'm doing. It doesn't need to be done yesterday, but I want to get going as soon as I can. I'm not particularly handy with mechanics and the idea of rebuilding is quite daunting.

 

[heimlaga]

There is always and will always be grits and dust embedded in the surface of recykled wood. Furthermore knots and the grain itself seems to become more abrassive with time. Been there tried that.

If you are going to sell the furniture you need some degree of efficiency in your production. Otherwise you will never earn above two pounds an hour before tax.
This means you need a solid cast iron floor standing machine. Either a planer/thicknesser or if there is space enough a separate planer and a separate thicknesser would be better.

If you cannot pay that initial investment either in cash or in time spent rebuilding a machine I have serious doubts that your business will ever turn any profit worth mentioning. Simply because you wouldn't produce enough.
This sounds harch but myself I am very thankful for this kind of harch lessons I was taught by other joiners when I stated out as a part timer.

 

[stockonehundred]

I appreciate your advice heimlaga, but I'm only making one table for the time being at this size stock. Production efficiency isn't really a consideration for the time being, at least. I take on what you say about blade damage and this can be minimalized by skimming the top layer off the surface with a grinder and sanding disc. Takes about 2 mins per length. I will probably go for the Axminster with iron beds, mentioned above, for now and as suggested buy something more heavy weight in the future when I can afford £1000 to £1,500. A second hand Sedgwick would probably be ideal. For now I just have to accept that blade maintenance will reduce profit for the time being, but I doubt it will ruin the machine at the volume I'm currently working on. Thanks to you and all for helping me come to this conclusion. Awesome forum!!

 

[custard]

Sounds like the P/T you need is out of reach financially. But, as been emphasised several times, the P/T's in your price range are well below the ideal.

So my advice would be either save up some more; or, if you're determined to buy something now, then get a second hand machine with a well known brand name so that you can re-sell it in the future without losing too much money.

Incidentally, even with disposable knives, machining recycled wood can get really expensive. it costs me £15 to change the disposable blades on my P/T, and that's using third party Woodford knives rather than the original Felder ones. I know from experience that machining old pine beams with rock hard knots, or indeed absolutely anything that's been painted, means that the knives really need changing after just a few hours!

Good luck.