Another Ban on the way?

[Stevekane]

The whole Gas thing for heating is completly crazy, complex gas boilers heating water to be pumped around houses, installation costs of £1000s servicing and a lifespan of about 10yrs or so,,,electric is definatly more sensible, electric heaters cost very little to buy, no servicing and when they go wrong anyone could pop up to Argos and buy another and fit it yourself, so why are we sticking with gas?,,,,,well eyewatering electric bills is the killer, and with demand for electric soaring for cars etc how do we generate cheap electric,,we stupidly ran away from nuclear and now were rather stuck with gas for a very long time I think. As for burning wood, you could see it as evidence of our gradual drift backwards,,

 

[HamsterJam]

Aluminium, Copper, and Pyrex pans won't work on induction hobs, just saying .

Nor stainless steel (without ferrous insert in the base).

 

[Jacob]

....As for burning wood, you could see it as evidence of our gradual drift backwards,,

And yes we are drifting backwards. A good reason for getting a wood stove.
With climate change disruption we are quite likely to find ourselves off-grid intermittently.
A stove is going to be much more efficient than trying to live and cook around an open fire!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

So the pollution is fine when it suits you? Hypocrite.

 

[Scruples]

Gas ovens dry food out, that's why they're uncommon in commercial kitchens.

Hmm...I don't see how domestic gas dries out food when the process of burning gas produces water and CO². Electric heating on the other hand dries out everything it heats.

 

[NickDReed]

Someone really needs to drag you kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

That's what this lot are up to!

Welcome to the 21st century.

 

[Scruples]

Nor stainless steel (without ferrous insert in the base).

The ferrous insert is, indeed, a prerequisite of stainless steel pans for induction hobs. But induction hobs leave the steel pans clean, so stainless pans are a bit redundant.

 

[Scruples]

And yes we are drifting backwards. A good reason for getting a wood stove.
With climate change disruption we are quite likely to find ourselves off-grid intermittently.
A stove is going to be much more efficient than trying to live and cook around an open fire!

Yes, let's all help to accelerate climate change, then we can all go back to mesolithic times. I always wanted to see what Dartmoor looked like before it was deforested.

 

[Scruples]

Yes, electric oven, gas hob - best way to cook.
Electric over for precise temperature control and gas hob for instant adjustment.

Well, no.

 

[Delwood]

Your wife should try an induction hob. It is, without dounbt, more responsive and less wasteful than either gas or ceramic with elements, as the energy produced only heats the pans, which heats the food, and not the surroundings.

But not if she has a pacemaker.

 

[Scruples]

But not if she has a pacemaker.

And -

• abdominal stimulators (used for building muscle)
• electronic body fat scales
• magnetic mattress pads or pillows
• welding equipment (with currents above 130 amps).

 

[ian33a]

All very well for people, generally in more densely populated areas, who have a choice of what to use to heat their homes or use for cooking. Our village isn't on mains gas and, while we could buy propane at stupidly high prices, our only other choice is electric or oil, or wood.

We actually heat via oil for most of the house, a boiler running hydronic underfloor heating via a thermal store. I've no idea why, but there we go, the previous owner didn't extend the underfloor heating to our lounges so the only heating there is via the dreaded wood burning stoves. The nearest house to us is 50 yards away, and that distance continues around the whole vicinity. I don't see the neighbours coughing their lungs out as a result of our smoke. We cut and manage wood just from our property, leaving it for a year or two to season and dry - never burning anything with man made content added to it. Smoke content is relatively low, especially as we properly heat the flue.

I've looked into ASHP but am convinced that the majority of installers in our area are clueless when it comes to heat loss calculations and efficient system design and installation - and that's a big deal in a reasonably large old house. The day will come when I have to seriously look again, but until then we will continue to chip away at improving the insulation and usage profile of heat in our house so trying to keep the cost of heating down.

We have solar and battery storage and that, coupled with load offsetting, dampens the costs of electricity. For cooking, we have no choice but to use electricity. In recent times we have taken to using a slow cooker and a microwave, while keeping the electric oven and hob usage low. We are convinced that this is a more efficient way to cook and, with a few compromises here and there, the food doesn't dry out and retains plenty of flavour.

All very well for the people, who make the decisions for the majority, who are living in the metropolis. They have little experience of living in the countryside aside from playing at it during a half term break or parachuted in at weekends to smile and shake the hands of their constituents.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, let's all help to accelerate climate change, then we can all go back to mesolithic times. I always wanted to see what Dartmoor looked like before it was deforested.

Wood burning is carbon neutral if from sustained sources or wood waste. Every woodworker should have one, if they aren't living in a densely populated area.
There'll be plenty of wood waste around when we enter the impending scrap-iron age!
I do think heat pumps etc are extremely high/complicated tech, and will fail early in a crisis, if not sooner.
Low-tech insulation should be top of the agenda and not vulnerable.

 

[Spectric]

but are more suited for 'spike leveling' for pumped stored hydro systems (which take several seconds to 'spool up' when demand increases)

We have a welsh hydro plant that does that for us to pump up the system if there is a sudden demand.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

So at the moment, on a warmish November evening, we're running at around 35gW total load in the UK.
Energy storage is apparently set to be 30,000mW in this country by 2030.
Unless I'm much mistaken, that's 30gW.
So about an hour's storage.
That's before having more electric loads from all electric houses, and EVs.

So in the worst case scenario, we have a freezing cold Winter evening, with no wind, and obviously no sun. A bigger load.
I do hope those nasty dirty gas turbines will keep up with the load.

There are ~30m vehicles in the UK. By the time gas turbines are decommissioned most will be replaced by EVs each of which will have a capacity of averagely 60kwh.

If all were fully charged and vehicle to grid (V2G) capable, they would provide 1800gW - enough to power the UK for for 60 hours at 30gW per hour.

I know this is glass half full stuff - but assuming just 25% of the potential would be 15 hours.

I expect gas turbines to be decommissioned as they age over the next 20-30 years, and nuclear capacity is planned to provide 24GW by 2050 (pigs might fly!!)

Statistical analysis of weather and demand can estimate the probability of a power deficit in adverse conditions. Extremes which fall outside a probable worst case will need a contingency plan to selectively and sensibly load shed.

The alternative is costly - maintaining a power supply under the most improbable circumstances. A balance needs to be struck - as is the case with gas at the moment where storage covers only ~7.5 days during winter. A failure in gas supply network would leave UK without power within 2 weeks.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

And yes we are drifting backwards. A good reason for getting a wood stove.
With climate change disruption we are quite likely to find ourselves off-grid intermittently.
A stove is going to be much more efficient than trying to live and cook around an open fire!

Few issues -

• the UK has too many homes/people to provide wood as fuel for all households on a sustainable basis - so who gets and who doesn't
• burning wood creates huge pollution - in the grand scheme of things it just circulates through a carbon cycle to new growth - but in the process will there be a return to pre clean air act smog
• I assume wood can also be processed to provide power for electricity generation - so lighting and any electric motors should be no problem. Could even have carbon capture
• I can afford a wood stove, chimney etc - but how do we help those that can't or live in apartment blocks. Should they be denied the joy of huddling around a stove.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Your third point - Drax. Which is a bloody disgrace.

 

[MikeB1972]

Well, no.

Good point, well made, I am at a loss how to counter this well constructed argument

 

[MikeJhn]

Consumption was TB.

I doubt that doctors in the 1800 could tell the difference between TB and Lung Cancer.

Providing that the wind is blowing or the sun is out otherwise start your generator.

Yet the tide goes in and out regardless.

 

[Jacob]

Few issues -

• the UK has too many homes/people to provide wood as fuel for all households on a sustainable basis - so who gets and who doesn't
• burning wood creates huge pollution - in the grand scheme of things it just circulates through a carbon cycle to new growth - but in the process will there be a return to pre clean air act smog
• I assume wood can also be processed to provide power for electricity generation - so lighting and any electric motors should be no problem. Could even have carbon capture
• I can afford a wood stove, chimney etc - but how do we help those that can't or live in apartment blocks. Should they be denied the joy of huddling around a stove.

Wood stoves suit some circumstances and situations, but not all.
Zero carbon low-tech solutions tend to get overlooked, whilst the search goes on for ever more sophisticated high technology, even though high tech is the basic cause of climate change in the first place, and is also dependent on infrastructure.
I idly wonder if wood-stoves could be developed so that all combustible waste could be burnt but with acceptably low levels of pollution. Not only wood, but also all paper, cloth, cardboard, plastic, everything.
Coupled with 100% composting then the only waste to be removed would be recyclable stuff, metals, glass, other materials