An Alternative to the 'expensive' one .. (FTAO :LOZ etc)

[Jenx]

Apologies to Tam, before I go any futher :wink: :lol: ...
I'll be expecting a clip round the ear from him for this ...

This is about the Tormek sharpening machine...well it is, and it isn't ...

I was in at Grampian P/T this morning getting some supplies ( Lemon Oil :wink: :lol: ) and bits & bobs...

Mike the owner said... " Come and have a look at my display" ...
He's got the TIGER system which is Sheppach ( various models available in the range ) ...
and it takes all the TORMEK gizmos, they all fit apparently...

and its about a third of the price.

Same water reservoir setup, same low speed / rpm motor setup ...

Basically the whole shebang is the same.....
except the price...

He told me he's sold a stack of them already, and he's got guys ( not numpty novices like yours truly, but 'good auld hands' ) phoning up after getting one, telling him they've never had an edge on their tools like it...
( Known Mike a good while .. pre-turning... and he's not giving me a sales pitch.. )

He says they're available from places all over the UK...

Just thought I'd give the guys who are in the market for something..
(Was thinking of Loz in particular.. but for anybody really... )
a 'heads-up' on this thing... Sheppach Tiger.

Had a good yank and pull at them, they seem well made, robust bits of kit.


HTH someone, in some way.

8) 8) 8) 8)

( sorry Tam :wink: ) 8) 8) :lol: :lol:

 

[tekno.mage]

I've got a Scheppach Tiger 2000 which I bought very cheaply (£70) ex-demo. I can confirm that most of the Tormek accessories work very well with it. I bought the Tormek "woodturners set" to go with mine. All the jigs work, the machine cover fits, but you need to do some modification to either the machine shaft or the centre of the Tormek shaped leather honing wheels to make them fit on the Scheppach shaft.

Other than that, I'm very happy with my machine. I upgraded the supplied wheel to a Peter Childs Microcrystalline wheel which is better (and lasts longer) with HSS turning tools and keep the supplied wheel for carbon steel plane blades, carving tools etc - it's simple enough to change the wheels over.

Having seen and used a friend's Tormek equivalent machine, I would say that the build quality and overall finish of the Tormek machine is superior - also the Scheppach doesn't have the "micro-adjust" screw on the bar for the jigs, but the Scheppach certainly works well and is a lot more affordable than the Tormek.

tekno.mage

 

[TEP]

Right Alun, you can take it that you have received the slap, and been severely reprimanded. :wink: :wink:

I'm not against the slow wet grinder per-say, all I keep preaching is that IMO they are not necessary for turning. Again if anyone wants to spend their dosh, that's up to them. Let's be honest there are a few folks who can get their jollies collecting the best of the best as far as tooling goes. I've got a mate like that who has a workshop FULL of gear which hardly ever gets used.

I get my jollies from turning out what I hope is good work, using experience and knowledge of what I'm doing.

Sermon over! :twisted: :twisted:

 

[crazylilting]

I'm glad this topic has come up. I need to get a grinder and have been looking at all the options. As my occupation is woodworking, i have hand planes and chisels that need grinding as well. I thought about just getting an 8 inch grinder with a white wheel, but when i was taking a violin course the teacher had a Tormek sharpening machine. It did such a good job i didn't need to do much work on the stone to get an edge that i could shave with.

I haven't done much turning but when i did just grinding seemed to be fine and anything more seemed a bit of an over kill as the edges don't last long any how on the lathe, but then i thought it was because of my lack of sharpening skills at the time.

It would be nice to hear from others on this topic before i run out and buy one. Its hard to know whether spending the money on a piece of kit like the Tormek sharpening machine is just an indulgence.

I was looking at this one as an alternative to the Tormek

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=781392&name=grinder&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=44

 

[Bob Chapman]

Like Tam, I'm not sure a Tormek (or lookalike) is really necessary for sharpening my turning tools. I've actually had a couple of Tormeks through my hands and sold them on after trying them out. I think they are wonderful for plane blades and straight edged chisels, but I didn't find them all that brilliant at gouges. Admittedly I didn't have the jigs and so on, and was sharpening them freehand.

I use a simple 6" grindr with a ruby wheel and I get a very good edge that lasts well. I don't know whether a gouge sharpened properly (i.e. not by me) on a Tormek would be better, last longer etc. but I do know it only takes seconds to touch up the edge on my wheel and I don't have to do it all that often. I wouldn't change because I'm happy with what I've got.

Bob

 

[crazylilting]

Just read up on the ruby wheel. Do you use the 40 or 80 grit wheel Bob?

 

[greggy]

i agree with tam and bob. you dont need to spend your lotto money on a tormek. i have had two the first being the little one then the large one.
i have found that if you use the jigs properly and are well versed in the practice of them you will get a better and sharper edge on your tools.and by doing that your edge will last a lot longer therefore not needing as much sanding afterwards. the most difficult part using the tormek ( or simlar ) is knowing how to use the jigs.

 

[TEP]

Hi Crazyl!

My reasoning about using a Tormek for turning is, that no matter how sharp you get a edge on a gouge or any woodturning tool, apart from a skew. I don't believe the edge will last any longer at the lathe. There is so much timber passing under the edge compared with bench joinery, that with some awkward woods I will be at the grinder every 10 - 15 minutes. It fact its not beyond the realms of reality to see miles of wood go under a woodturning gouge, where in the same time a bench joiner may have cut a few mortises or dovetails. There is just no comparison.

The only possible advantage I can ever envisage is for the final cuts before sanding, and I am not prepared to spend loads of dosh on saving a few pence on sandpaper. I have some friend who are carvers and flat workers, and that is a whole different ball game, wide stones and wet grinding really comes into its own then.

This subject has raised it head numerous times over the months, and if you read them through you find that the people who are asking about this are mostly beginners, and folks who can't seem to come to grips working at the lathe. It appears almost as if they are trying to buy their way to becoming a competent turner. IMO rather than buy all sorts of fancy tools, spend any spare cash on lessons, or wood for practice, at the end of the day personal ability with the tools is the only thing which will make you a good turner.

Only my personal opinion of course, and now I'm off down the allotment before the flack starts flying. :twisted: :twisted: :wink:

 

[tekno.mage]

One benefit a wet-wheel sharpening system like Tormek or Scheppach has for beginners is that it doesn't take off huge amounts of metal at a time, or risk overheating the tool - so it is rather more forgiving of mistakes. It doesn't generate hot sparks either if that's an issue.

However, as has already been mentioned, you do need to learn to use the jjgs even with a wet system - they won't give you a perfect fingernail grind on a gouge automatically - the actual shape is dependant on how long the user spends on each part of the edge.

I wasn't getting on at all well using a dry grindwheel freehand for gouges, so looked at a variety of different jigs and sharpening options - all were expensive except the "home-built" variety. I then had the opportunity to try a professional turner friend's Tormek & jigs which I found very easy to use. Having said that I'm sure if I'd had a chance to try a decent jig on a a dry grinder, or the Sorby sanding-belt system & jigs I may have found either just as easy.

The fact that I was offered a cheap ex-demo Scheppach that accepts the Tormek jigs was a big deciding factor in my purchase! Although as I also have occasion to sharpen non-turning tools with flat blades & some carving tools, I've found it very useful overall.

I still use a dry grinder & platform freehand for scrapers & parting tools - it's quicker than mounting a tool in a jig.

tekno.mage

 

[Jenx]

Crazy .. whatever way you do decide to go ....

NOT and I cannot emphasise this enough... NOT the Record RPBG8 with the 40mm white wheel. :x
Its awful. ( see other posts relating to this )


I can't do it free hand ... tried a platform jig ( which i still use, BTW ), but couldn't do a fingernail profile, supposing I'd stood at it for a month.
And I like the swept back grind on my 'bowlers' as well as detailing gouges... so ended up with a Trugrind, which takes the 'guesswork' out of it.
I use the Trugrind for fluted tools, roundnose scrapers and skews with the exception of the roughing gouges which I find easier on the platform.
Parting tools.. Platform for them too.

RS200K Hollower / shear-scraper bits, I sharpen on a flat disc, on the lathe, with the Sorby table, to give the correct angles

Just to add... the lad showing the Sheppach to me, did say.. you need the jigs / accesories ( Tormek ), to achieve best success.
Otherwise its just another wheel ! :wink:

I guess if I was shown, maybe I could get a better handle on freehanding.. left to my own devices, i was making a pigs lug of it.. and as TM said, destroying more steel than my wallet could afford :wink: 8)

 

[Bob Chapman]

Hi Crazy, it's a fine grained wheel so I guess it's 80 grit if 40 and 80 are the only two alternatives, but it gives a finer surface than a 100 grit white wheel I also have. I bought it some years ago from Mick O'Donnell when he had a stand at one of the Harrogate shows, but I've not seen him there for the last two or three years.

Bob

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/schep ... d8382.html
vs

http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Grindin ... nders.html

vs

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?a ... =266909966


...just for comparison as I've no axe to grind :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Jenx]

And if you did... what would you grind it on ? :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

:lol: :lol: anything handy
(all me axes are already sharp courtesy of me '91 vintage B&Q grinder :wink: )

 

[Jenx]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Have to say, in a similar vein, I'm 'fine chuffed' with my cheapie Clark 6" machine, that replaced the VibroMonster recently.

A lot of the happyness is courtesy of the trugrind too.. good little gizmo, that thing. 8)
I'd imagine the wolverine one is good too.

 

[Lightweeder]

Well this does highlight the problem I assume we beginners all have. Not sure whether it's our technique that's lacking, we dash out and spend a fortune on all sorts of stuff. A little knowledge can be very expensive. If one more person says to me "oh I wish you'd asked me first. I could have given you one of those". I've just bought a ruby (pinkish) wheel for my grinder. The difference (apart from cost) not immediately evident to me, but maybe my tools appreciate it :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

The only good jig is one you can dance to :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



(OK, relax guys and gals, don't get out of your pram as i was only joshin

 

[TEP]

Been turning for a couple of years and that is exactly how I feel LW. I've got grey wheels, white wheels, and a pink (red)?. The only difference I can tell is I don't like the grey for sharpening. They do seem to glaze over very quickly, and continually need to be dressed, but still sharpen the chisels OK. The white and pink do seem to be easier on the steel, and certainly don't glaze over very quickly at all, but for the life of me I can't tell the difference between them. (Other than the colour) :roll: :roll:

 

[Lightweeder]

Been turning for a couple of years and that is exactly how I feel LW. I've got grey wheels, white wheels, and a pink (red)?. The only difference I can tell is I don't like the grey for sharpening. They do seem to glaze over very quickly, and continually need to be dressed, but still sharpen the chisels OK. The white and pink do seem to be easier on the steel, and certainly don't glaze over very quickly at all, but for the life of me I can't tell the difference between them. (Other than the colour) :roll: :roll:

.....and the cost, of course :roll:

 

[cornucopia]

right folks after reading all of this thread carfully my 2p is...
I have owned a 10" tormek for 8 ish years- i only use it for my fingernail gouges everything else is done free hand on a very old cheap 6" dry grinder.
for me the tormek cannot be beaten for fingernail grinds- it produces the exact grind every time without facets and razor sharp which very few turners can do free hand.
it is expensive for what it is.
I couldint just have a tormek though,it would drive me nuts. a dry grinder and a tormek make a perfect team in my opinion.