Am I the only one??

[sawdust maker]

POCKET SCREW JOINTS
Am I the only one who cannot stand the thought of pocket screw joints. I
know we should be progressive, but really is screwing two pices of wood together new? To me it looks like a marketing ploy to get us to buy a very much over priced little jig and make someone very rich. How can you take pride in making something when all you've done is cut the wood square and screw it together.

Sorry if this appears just as a rant, it is!. As I write this I can hear my grandfather. He use to rant about Barry bucknell, because all he did was "glue and pin" (For those much younger than me, Barry was the original DIYer on TV in the early 60s). My granddad was right, stand up for proper woodwork.

Rant over

Paul

 

[George_N]

POCKET SCREW JOINTS
Am I the only one who cannot stand the thought of pocket screw joints. I
know we should be progressive, but really is screwing two pices of wood together new? To me it looks like a marketing ploy to get us to buy a very much over priced little jig and make someone very rich. How can you take pride in making something when all you've done is cut the wood square and screw it together.

Sorry if this appears just as a rant, it is!. As I write this I can hear my grandfather. He use to rant about Barry bucknell, because all he did was "glue and pin" (For those much younger than me, Barry was the original DIYer on TV in the early 60s). My granddad was right, stand up for proper woodwork.

Rant over

Paul

"Glue and pin" sounds a lot like "secure with glue and some brads" :norm:

 

[mr]

I'm with you Paul, there seems to be something wrong with the pocket screw concept to me - the hobbyist. However, in a world where time is money to a professional if a device like a pocket screw jig produces a strong joint quickly and allows the builder time to work on something else there has to be a place for it. Its only intended to be functional after all.
Mike

 

[johnnyb]

personally i like pocket screws. they allow things that couldnt be done any other way. i have just installed a cabinet and now want to put draws into one side. i need to put a divider to hang the runners on. i will attach it with pocket screws. they are not a new thing. at least 15 years ago i worked for a firm that made repro display cabs entirely using pocket screws, utter crap but very profitable. it allowed beginners to make very impressive cabinets. i would not use them in exterior situations though. they are not entirely foolproof and you have to have a knack to get them right.

 

[Anonymous]

Paul

i don't like or use them, but they are certainly not new - many very old pieces of furniture are constructed using this technique

 

[ByronBlack]

If they are strong, economical, do the job and provide a quick means of getting a job done to a high standard, then why not. It's just snobbish to think that just beacuse its easy that its in some way inferior. Like everything in life, there is a time and place, and time is money, therefor we need a range of techniques to suit various purposes.

 

[Wood Monkey]

Whilst I can see occasions where pocket screws serve a purpose, I prefer to avoid any mechanical fixings whenever possible.

I guess the main difference is that I’m a hobby woodworker and time is not money. When a professional needs a joint that is going to be strong and reliable, but he cannot afford for t to sit in the clamps for ages, then pocket screws are one option.

We could start the whole argument of traditional woodworking versus technology, for example hand cut dovetails versus jig cut dovetails.

As always, it’s horses for courses…

Jon

 

[Waka]

I tend to use pocket hole technique on things that I want to knock up for the WS, I haven't yet considered using them on a oiece of furniture but I certainly wouldn't discard the technique if I felt it warrented it.

I think all the ways of joining two bits of wood together should be considered. No snobbery in my WS I use what is practicable at the time.

 

[sawdust maker]

Sorry I am not convinced. Lots of you have made the argument that it is a quick and strong way of jointing. I will concede that it is quick method. But strong, sorry I cannot buy that. If glue is used one side of the joint is end grain, which we know does not make a good bond. The screws are in the cross grain which is good, but all that holds the the other pice of wood is the head of the screw in a hole that runs don the grain. In my view cannot be that strong. Also, not cheap, with special screws and a jig that costs way over the odds.

 

[George_N]

In my post above I mentioned Norm Abram fixing things with "glue and brads" but the main use I've seen him make of pocket screws is face frames. They don't need a lot of structural strength and the pocket screws hold everything in place until it is attached to the cabinet front. I would say that is a pretty good use of the technique, much more so than for frames that need to be intrinsically strong and rigid.

 

[ByronBlack]

Sawdust Maker

I suggest you do a little more reading about pocket screws. They are very strong indeed, and you don't have to pay 'way over the odds' for a jig either, why not make your own, or by one of the cheaper own-brand ones. I don't really see your point in this argument, if you don't like them, then don't use them, but to say they aren't strong and expensive seems odd to me, but c'est la vie, horses for courses, swings and roundabouts, each to their own etc etc

 

[Johnboy]

Like Waka I use them for jigs or stuff for the workshop, quick, simple, no waiting for glue to dry and strong. My bandsaw stand top is 2 pieces of MDF butt jointed with pocket screws (I didn't have one piece big enough and was too tight to go and buy some) and it hasn't fallen in half yet.

John

 

[Colin C]

This technique is very old as Tony has said as it was used for fixing tops on furniture as far back as the 18 century ( if I has my dates right :-k ).

I difference is that you have a jig to help do it

I would use it my self but I dont have a jig for it yet :wink:

 

[sawdust maker]

OK, OK, I give up. I think what got me was every woodworking mag appears to be pushing them as the universal jointing solution. There is a time and a place for pocket screw joints, but it could be some time before I buy a jig.

You lot must be feeling like I did when my grand father ranted about Barry Bucknell and his "Glue and pin". I should have remembered and kept my mouth shut.

Paul

 

[Colin C]

Paul

Dont get me wrong as I think you do have a point, that it would seem that joints like this are being used more instead proper joints.

 

[Slim]

I have recently built an 8ft long 6 drawer unit out of ply and oak veneered MDF. The pocket hole jig was an absolute godsend. However, I would only use it with ply and mdf projects. Any solid wood projects would be done with non mechanical joints.

Oh, and I find it excelent for picture frames.