am I becoming a plane nut?

[Vann]

Hi Woodbloke - re the often stated 'mind your toes' - are we referring to the loose bit of the 2 part cap iron?? Damn, I drop toast on me toes that weighs more than that. Experts on the hazards of SS Records, please explain.

Can't wait for Woodbloke, he'll only have bad things to say.

SS Records (and Cliftons) - some people love 'em, some hate 'em.

The downside of the "stay-set" cap iron is, when you pull out the irons, the 'deflector' will probably fall off and get lost in the shaving under your bench. That can be avoided by training yourself to put a finger on the 'deflector' as you pull out the irons (thanks for that tip Paul C.). Also, I don't believe you can retain the 'set' of your plane - but some people claim to be able to.

The upside is the good thickness (also obtainable with L-N, LV, etc. one-piece cap-irons), and the flat, hinged, design which is probably the single best design out there to hold yoiur cutting iron flat onto the frog.

Or at least that's my take on the matter...

Cheers, Vann.

 

[bugbear]

If you are thinking - 'How Much...?', 'Jammy Seller' or 'I'll keep an eye out for one of those, flog it to collector and buy a whole suite of gooduns' - you're a user.

"Dealer", I think.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

Experts on the hazards of SS Records, please explain.

The two-piece (as Clifton call it) or Stay-set (as Record call it) cap iron was designed by Record many years ago. Record and Stanley plane blades are thin and the conventional cap iron, which is a crudely-made piece of bent metal, can bend thin blades as the cap iron nut is screwed tight. This prevents the blade from seating properly on the plane frog and can lead to chatter when planing. The Stay-set cap iron is in two pieces and is much thicker than the bent metal type. There is a fixed piece which is screwed to the blade and a removable part which locates on the fixed part via a couple of slots and a location pin. The slots and the pin prevent the removable part from "falling off" unless you turn the blade upside down and don't put a finger on the removable part. The whole arrangement helps to keep the blade nice and flat and well seated on the frog, thereby avoiding any chatter. The advantages of the cap iron are most noticeable if you use thin blades.

I have Stay-set cap irons fitted to all my bench planes because I reckon it's the best-designed cap iron out there. I've never dropped one but there are some who like to create the impression that the removable part has a way of somehow leaping up and crashing to the floor, injuring their toes on the way. Derek in Oz and Woodbloke over here seem to hate them with a passion but I don't know why.

Hope this explanation is helpful.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[GazPal]

Experts on the hazards of SS Records, please explain.

The two-piece (as Clifton call it) or Stay-set (as Record call it) cap iron was designed by Record many years ago. Record and Stanley plane blades are thin and the conventional cap iron, which is a crudely-made piece of bent metal, can bend thin blades as the cap iron nut is screwed tight. This prevents the blade from seating properly on the plane frog and can lead to chatter when planing. The Stay-set cap iron is in two pieces and is much thicker than the bent metal type. There is a fixed piece which is screwed to the blade and a removable part which locates on the fixed part via a couple of slots and a location pin. The slots and the pin prevent the removable part from "falling off" unless you turn the blade upside down and don't put a finger on the removable part. The whole arrangement helps to keep the blade nice and flat and well seated on the frog, thereby avoiding any chatter. The advantages of the cap iron are most noticeable if you use thin blades.

I have Stay-set cap irons fitted to all my bench planes because I reckon it's the best-designed cap iron out there. I've never dropped one but there are some who like to create the impression that the removable part has a way of somehow leaping up and crashing to the floor, injuring their toes on the way. Derek in Oz and Woodbloke over here seem to hate them with a passion but I don't know why.

Hope this explanation is helpful.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

An excellent explanation Paul and another vote for Stay-Set cap irons from me too. I've been using Stay-Set for quite a number of years now and find them the most effective cap iron to use and far less fussy than other types of cap iron when it boils down to touching up an edge, regrinding a primary bevel and adding a good degree of heft to manufacturer's stock blades.

 

[Alf]

Simple steps to establish whether you are a collector or a user:

Check out Aces and Eights recent post of a trainwrecked 604 with a sidewing smashed off and a crack extending across the side of the mouth that sold for $235.38 on eBay.

If words like 'Bargain', 'Drat' and 'Jammy Buyer' spring into your mind - you are a collector.

If you are thinking - 'How Much...?', 'Jammy Seller' or 'I'll keep an eye out for one of those, flog it to collector and buy a whole suite of gooduns' - you're a user.

What are you if you can't actually bear to look at the poor thing and have to turn away? 8-[

As for two-piece cap irons, they have a magnetic attraction to the floor and the deepest covering of shavings; it's a proven fact.

Well it's a fact.

Okay, so it always happens to me anyway. That makes it a proven fact in my book. :wink: Anyway cap irons are so last century. Bevel-up and you need never endanger your tootsies ever again.

 

[condeesteso]

Excellent Paul - I have one (Clifton) on a record No4 and rate it, there's one on the No6 coming any day now (original Record). If the only down-side is it comes off, I think I can deal with that! The structural arguments in favour make me a supporter.
(See Jim... that's how it's done, that explaining thing

 

[Paul Chapman]

Anyway cap irons are so last century.

OK, I know I'm old but no need to rub it in........ :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[jimi43]

(See Jim... that's how it's done, that explaining thing

You just wait...if you think such a bland reasoning is going to get you off lightly with this lot you are sadly mistaken! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[condeesteso]

Right, we need some pics to lift this a bit.
Got the No6 SS Record (£36 remember). Note that I plan to use it as a semi-scrub. So a fair camber, and aggressive cuts.
Blade has loads on it... probably because no-one has ever really known what to use a 6 for. The primary was 'multi-bevel', which is apparently in vogue again these days (not down my way).
Sole was / is super-flat (again, why did the guy even buy a 6 in the first place?).
So a 25 degree primary, with a jig so it's all 25 degrees, I just like them like that. Fair bit of camber on the primary too.
Then, radical (??) a 35 secondary, and a widish one at that. Reasons: got bored making the perfect all-through primary, and the steeper and deeper secondary should support the edge better.
Had to carefully hone the chipbreaker - it had a nick in it, but I think I kept the angles, and polished the upper to aid free flow of chips.
Bit of a clean-up, the tote was split and repaired in the usual place, but the repair was good, so a re-finish on knob and tote (this is not a collector piece, and we are all users, remember).
It's good. Rips deep cuts off pine, cuts wild grain v well (oak) and the mouth is wide at the moment. And it can do the wafery stuff too (see pic).
Conclusion - nice, if you like that kind of thing.

 

[jimi43]

Bit of radical engineering there Douglas my friend!

And for that price...it's an open field for play really...

I have a feeling that you have plans for this little Record....and the iron is a good one so I am sure it will be fit for purpose....

It might take a bit more to convince me of the purpose of that particular cardinal but a scrub seems the most appropriate.

Cheers for sharing....mind yer toes! And remember to sweep the shavings from under the bench before you hone it :mrgreen: :wink:

Jim

 

[matthewwh]

What are you if you can't actually bear to look at the poor thing and have to turn away?

A desperately incurable romantic???

Glad I'm not the only one who will be buried with their planes and a toolguard VCI clenched between their teeth lest they should rust before some future Baldrick and his merry chums come along to enquire what you did with your life!

 

[condeesteso]

re steel toe caps etc - I was taught many years ago that when removing or refitting a blade to a plane, rest the heel of sole on bench, hold toe in left hand (assuming right-handed). tilt plane to 45 degrees then release lever cap, lift blade assembly out WITHOUT blade edge touching mouth / frog.
Not dropped a 2 part cap yet (but it's still early days for me on the 2 part thing). Good practice nevertheless, says so in the Bible.

 

[woodbloke]

Jim - funny, yes. Explanation, no.

Hang around a while Douglas and Rob will be along with an explanation....

8)

Jim

It's a me thing! Two piece cap irons are just about the most irritating thing :twisted: :twisted: on God's green earth...apart from drivers with mobiles stuck to their ears - Rob

 

[Alf]

re steel toe caps etc - I was taught many years ago that when removing or refitting a blade to a plane, rest the heel of sole on bench, hold toe in left hand (assuming right-handed). tilt plane to 45 degrees then release lever cap, lift blade assembly out WITHOUT blade edge touching mouth / frog.

Then turn over iron and two-piece cap iron assembly to loosen screw and... Damn, I forgot and it's dropped off again. #-o

At least that's how I remember it going.

Matthew, desperately incurable romantic? Yeah, probably.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Then turn over iron and two-piece cap iron assembly to loosen screw and... Damn, I forgot I don't need to do that

Fixed

 

[Sawyer]

I have Stay-set cap irons fitted to all my bench planes because I reckon it's the best-designed cap iron out there. I've never dropped one but there are some who like to create the impression that the removable part has a way of somehow leaping up and crashing to the floor, injuring their toes on the way. Derek in Oz and Woodbloke over here seem to hate them with a passion but I don't know why.
Paul

I have a mixture so sometimes forget and end up dropping the stay set. My toes are none the worse for it though. :lol:

 

[matthewwh]

 

[Paul Chapman]

:lol: :lol:

 

[condeesteso]

"apart from drivers with mobiles stuck to their ears"

Rob, down my way they're breeding. And they are almost all so called yummy mummies, driving auto 4 x 4s, blonde (they cannot all really be blonde surely... matching collar and cuffs and everything?). And the worst time of day is on the way back from their school run in the morning, planning the golf, shopping etc with their pals. The guys in the white vans are saints compared to that lot.
Give me a 2-piece any day.

p.s.... and here's another thing. Just how wide do you think an XC90 is, I mean just roughly?

 

[woodbloke]

"apart from drivers with mobiles stuck to their ears"

Rob, down my way they're breeding. And they are almost all so called yummy mummies, driving auto 4 x 4s, blonde (they cannot all really be blonde surely... matching collar and cuffs and everything?). And the worst time of day is on the way back from their school run in the morning, planning the golf, shopping etc with their pals. The guys in the white vans are saints compared to that lot.
Give me a 2-piece any day.

p.s.... and here's another thing. Just how wide do you think an XC90 is, I mean just roughly?

A little bit OT but I did some research on this through ROSPRA (in connection with work) and if it can be proved that a death was caused by the use of a hand held mobile whilst driving, the sentence, depending on the circumstances and how the CPS bring charges, can be either a max of 2 or 5 years at HM pleasure and an unlimited fine...if only they knew - Rob