Advice please; Work-bench and Vice

[Cordy]

At long last I have decided to build a work-bench in my garage; to be based on This
All Redwood; the top to be 3 x 2 on edge, perhaps with 1 inch MDF screwed on top; 68" x 22" overall

It does not have an Apron and top is only connected with 6 ragbolts is that OK ?

Cross supports to legs are bolted: no mention of glue is that usual ?

Vice; can't decide whether to buy something like this Draper 9 inch or try to find an old Vice on the Bay

Is there a site that shows dimensions of old Record Vices and meanings of letters, eg Record No 52 1/2 E
Any advice and info appreciated

 

[undergroundhunter]

First of all dont glue to top to the base it will restrict the movement of the wood and probably pull the top apart over time. The bench design seems ok if you are primarily a power tool woodworker, if you are using handplanes then ideally you would want the legs tenoned into the top this will resist racking. Check out Paul Sellers workbench series on Youtube, its a time tested design and works for many people. I personally went for more of a roubo design but its horses for courses really, Chris Schwatz has written two books on workbench design which I read cover to cover before designing my bench.

Matt

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The two top pieces of my bench are held down with four steel brackets like are used for stair treads and a mere sixteen 50mm x 5mm screws, eight to the top, eight to the sides. Many people would regard that as totally inadequate, but it presents no problems whatsoever - the bench has anything and everything thrown at it. If the frame can't rack you gain very little from being anal about fixing the top down - all it needs is something to stop it bouncing up ... which actually isn't very much. How much upward pressure is excerted on the top? My top is fixed down with screws and the long rails are set 6" down - it doesn't rack.

 

[undergroundhunter]

My bench top is not held down at all, the tenons on the legs just sit into mortices there is no fixing just the weight of the top. this means I can remove it needed.

Matt

 

[John15]

Mortice and tenon joints would be stronger for the leg and rail assemblies, and 200mm aprons would help prevent racking.

John

 

[undergroundhunter]

Mortice and tenon joints would be stronger for the leg and rail assemblies, and 200mm aprons would help prevent racking.

John

They would but are not the be all and end all I have zero racking on my bench and I have no aprons.



Matt

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Look no apron -

no top rail either, as such. It doesn't rack. Mine was specifically designed to have all good all round access on both top sections, so I didn't want an apron or a rail directly under the top. There are many ways to ensure your bench doesn't rack, it's just wise to think about them first not last if going off the beaten track.

 

[custard]

You'll be fine with that design Cordy. If you have any racking concerns just beef up the back panel and that'll fix it. Don't overthink it, every bench is a work in progress, I must have made ten or twelve benches and I'm still convinced the next one will be perfect...but they never quite are.

Couple of points,

-the vice looks a bit too centred, that can cause problems around the gentleman's region if you're not careful. Shunt it a few inches over to the left (the vice, not the gentleman's region)

-don't go crazy with the holes, a few are nice bit too many becomes a liability. Sooner or later you will chop out a mortice or a half lap dovetail right over a dog hole...the good news is you only make this mistake once!

Good luck!

 

[AndyT]

I think your bench will be fine fixed with bolts. If you glue it, you'll never be able to move it ir modify it.

For vices, the bigger the number the bigger the vice. Planecraft has the details and is worth having.
I posted sizes of the 521/2 here

post844286.html#p844286

Edit: here are the sizes

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[Neil S]

My bench is an old steel legged table with 2 sheets of 18mm ply screwed on top and lipped with pine. I thought a frame made of steel tube would be super strong but it wobbled about quite a bit. Since it was up against the garage wall I stuck a shelf bracket horizontally between the wall and the top surface at each end. It has absolutely no movement now. I fixed with brackets a front apron on to the plywood sheets to stop the top sagging. Unfortunately I didn't appreciate how much of a hole needed to be cut through the front apron to fit the vice. I had to add extra rails to the bottom of the apron so it wasn't completely cut in two by the vice.

Thinking about it I probably need to build a new bench.

-Neil

 

[sundaytrucker]

They would but are not the be all and end all I have zero racking on my bench and I have no aprons.
Matt

Did you make that with hand tools only? Is the top laminated 2x4?

I prefer the roubo design but will probably end up following The English Woodworkers bench video.

 

[doubleb]

Having Record and Bosch kit, I followed the demonstration You Tube video of Alan Holtham. Started off alright with the M&T joints but because I was using scrap timber it more or less finished up like a Heath Robinson job.
I managed to get hold of a QR vice for £4 but the Veritas front vice was new from Axi and I find it very useful on a side fitting. I expect I will drill more holes in the future but for now it suits me for what I use it for.
That bench looks good and solid but I had to go for mobility and I sit most of the time while working because of back problems and getting on a bit.

 

[Cordy]

Thanks for all the advice; I will be implementing many of the suggestions

doubleb; Is that the regular or large Veritas Front Vice

 

[doubleb]

Large, vice is 265 x 533mm(10.1/2" x 21") with a clamping capacity of 330mm(13").
Capacity less the thickness of wooden jaws fitted with an offset center screw to prevent skewing.
Cast iron/steel, note :  branded Veritas, but from eastern Europe, who cares, still a nice bit of kit on your bench and easy to fit.

 

[Copes]

Hi Cordy,

I'm in the same situation as you in designing a bench without aprons.

I actually posted some questions a while back in the design section of the forum, but apart from some tumbleweed (plane shavings? there wasn't much response. I've added my updated design as some attached images. I happen to have inherited a Record 53 from my grandfather which required a lot of work to get back ship shape, but a good de-rusting and its back as good as new.

I've changed the bench since my last post, changed the through tenons on the top, to regular tenons that will just sit without glue in the mortice like others have suggested, i'll stick a few bolts up through the side rails, just so i can disasemble the bench if i need to.

Added a back panel for both a bit more rigidity and to stop things dropping down the back under the table saw (this is going to double as an outfeed table for myself. which is why i didn't include a tool well.)

Just looking at the images now, i'll probably reduce the height of the top rail tenons, as it doesn't leave much material above the mortice.

I've decided to not bother with dog holes etc for now, i'll add them in if i think i need them.

Dimensions are 1500x650 for reference.

I'll keep a close eye on this thread to see whatever people can suggest. Thanks

 

[thetyreman]

I'm currently building the paul sellers one, it's pretty challenging, but it has been (so far) the most satisfying thing I have ever made, and well worth the challenge.

 

[Cordy]

Good post Copes; vaguely similar to the American design that I decided on
Likewise no holes to be bored into bench-top at first

Bench needs to be simple for me as I'm no joiner - retired gardener in fact

Already got the Redwood in my garage -- My old Mercedes will have it's first winter outside -- bought new in 1999 and pampered these past 17 years

Tyreman: Paul Sellers bench is too adventurous for me I'm afraid

You know that Paul originates from Stockport

 

[sundaytrucker]

Copes - I think you may be better off leaving out the top rail on your trestles as long as the top is suitably thick enough? I am no expert but it looks like you may get an issue with seasonal movement in it's current design? I may be wrong, so it will be interesting to see other opinions.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

See my pic. on the previous page - the need for top rails or aprons is not writ in stone. The two top pieces are 70mm hardwood and I have no problems with movement or bounce without a rail directly underneath. The point was made here some while ago that most traditional bench designs come from an age when huge chunks of timber were routinely worked by hand, necessitating a strong bench which would also be shorter to allow a (shorter) carpenter to get his body weight over it. I wondered when I did mine first whether I would have any spring in the top, but think about it - we do little beating in the middle of the top, we do it over or nearly over the leg - which of course is why the vice should be set as close as possible to the leg. One thing I do NOT miss is a well. I've a reversible 45mm strip down the middle so the top is either flat or has a useful stop running down the middle. Combined with holdfasts, it's brilliant.
But no doubt my next one will be different and better ... I just don't know how, yet.

 

[thetyreman]

Good post Copes; vaguely similar to the American design that I decided on
Likewise no holes to be bored into bench-top at first

Bench needs to be simple for me as I'm no joiner - retired gardener in fact

Already got the Redwood in my garage -- My old Mercedes will have it's first winter outside -- bought new in 1999 and pampered these past 17 years

Tyreman: Paul Sellers bench is too adventurous for me I'm afraid

You know that Paul originates from Stockport

that's fair enough, at least you know your own limits, best of luck with the bench, I hope it works out well.