Advice Please- Table Saw Push Sticks and Disks

[spiritburner]

I thought you might like to see this, it’s a saw very similar to yours that I built into a worktop for Dil, it all had to be very carefully measured to work. But you can shim and wedge to get it set right.
The fence on those saws extends way out to the right, as you can see there are a couple of slots and the fence just skims the work surface.
This one was built into a garage and nothing was level grrrrr. I also built in a crosscut saw, and a vice.
Ian
View attachment 175938View attachment 175939

Many thanks for that, very impressive

 

[graduate_owner]

That's a bit harsh. The OP has stated that he is familiar with 'most of' the safety concerns and is enquiring about the secondary aspect of push stick material. In my experience plastic will just get eaten away when in contact with the blade, just like wood.
Neil from Spain has worded his post very well but his English is not 100% correct indicating that he hasn't quite translated it correctly from Spanish.
Brian

Point taken regarding the language issue. Not trying to be superior etc, just helpful. I would rather point out these things though than assume OP is competent. We have all seen pictures of nasty things a table saw can do. Mine still gets full respect from me, which is perhaps why I still have a full set of fingers. I did once get a real belt in the gut from a kick back though, happened so fast. And my top guard stays on unless I am cutting a groove.

K

 

[Cabinetman]

So this got me looking at the YouTube experts, oh dear, Katz Moses? Using lots of different ones with saw handles that take your hand right across the top of the blade, and then the clown says he doesn’t like the style we are pushing as it keeps your hands too far away!!! No crown guard of course, well you can’t can you using those damn things.
What a complete F... menace.

 

[spiritburner]

What concerns me here is the OP doesn't know what the saw blade is called - 'discs'? That implies a lack of overall knowledge about the use and (most importantly) safety issues associated with a table saw. I would suggest the OP correct this - books, reliable videos (many US youtube videos show table saws being used without the top guard) or if possible some practical tuition. These are not forgiving machines.
K

Many thanks for your very gifted advice . I am probably as English as you are having been born in Winchester and that one side of my family name is on the stonework in the small Norman church in the village of Whitchurch which has sat there for just over 1000 years and where my family and ancestors have lived for a fairly long time

I simply moved to Spain in 1999 to raise my children in a different culture so that they would understand the world slightly better than most british children do when they came of age. I could foresee what was happening to the UK back in 1996 and made plans then having had the advantage of working in the City of London at No. 1 Lime St, London EC3M 7HA for many years. I chose to work in the city despite a qualification and several years at University because Brokers earned a hell of a lot more than Engineers in the 80's. I sort of dabbled a bit in Stocks/Shares, Banking and Insurance which is why in my late 30's I was able to move here lock, stock and barrel with my family to avoid turning into someone I didn't like. It was far better being able to walk with my kids to school everyday and be there for them in the insane amount of holidays that the kids get here.

I was fortunate enough that my "dabbling" meant I was able to fund our house and fairly simplistic lifestyle here while retaining property back in the UK for our autumnal years here in my 60's which is now, since I retired when we moved to Spain in 1999 I had a need to continue to work and I have spent a considerable amount of my time assisting young people into starting small businesses over here where they are able to provide services to both Spanish and English speaking residents although of the latter there are none in my village but a stone's throw away will find Sitges which is a truly cosmopolitan and somewhat hedonistic gay town with residents from all over Europe including a few from the UK who make normally no attempt whatsoever in learning the the language of the country they are living in. I guess a bit like most of the immigrants in the UK I guess.

I take a great delight in helping people by education and the rewards it gives me far outstrips any pecuniary advantage I might incur. Now, I simply make children's educational toys so that my wife who specialises in teaching SEN children here in Spain can use them to help her with some of the children in her charge.

Its quite amazing actually how many kids just love a wooden toy over some plastic alternative. A simple pull along duck or wooden puzzle is just the ticket my wife whose Scottish by the way of 40 years tells me.

I have done that for many years and over the last couple I have wound down the business work to take up full time my hobbies of engineering my first love and carpentry which my wife loves , actually I also build CNC machines for clients here, mainly lasers but also the odd CNC water cooled spindles ( a bit hot here for air cooled ) using 3 and 4 axis controllers , in fact the photo attached is a laser I am just finishing which is a 160 Watt 2.2 metre C02 Laser being driver by a Reci tube with Cloudray mirrors and optics. It is actually able to clean cut through marine ply at 15mm width in one pass and on Cast Acrylic at 20 mm as well.

I'll move on from the P***ing contest shall I ? I feel I have probably established my credentials sufficiently.

By the way I better just add that I am also bilingual in English, Spanish, Catalan with passable French and a smattering of German thrown in for good measure. On the odd occasion that it might be needed here although the Germans have not yet invaded Barcelona sadly though on the Balearics it is a different kettle of fish or Sauerkraut where they seem to have totally taken over and turned Mallorca in to a new German colony.

Now when I type and read in various languages sometimes I actually might forget to use the right translated word or in some cases use the exact translation which is what I did in this case. Saw Blades in Spanish is actually "Discos de Sierra" I guess I could go further and describe the type of machine which is what we would do in Spanish but not English and of which the literal translation is "Saw Disk" My use of the word disk "implies nothing about a lack of overall knowledge" so I will offer my sincerest apologies if this offended you in some way and led you to believe that I have absolutely no experience whatsoever in doing anything other that wiping my bum for the last nearly 62 years.

Sarcasm they do say is actually the lowest form of wit but I think personally it can be incredibly useful. I naively thought that I would ask for some simple advice on push sticks but it would appear with your goodself that I have somehow offended, perhaps in an earlier life or alter ego as clearly you believed that I was some illiterate Spanish numpty daring to join a English Woodworking Forum with no understanding at all of anything other than Football, Sangria and Chicas. (girls)

I believe someone in a earlier post suggested about making assumptions and how it makes an *** out of YOU and ME.

I feel I have chagrined or if you like castigated you sufficiently and perhaps should doff my Sombrero (Flat cap) to your many years of forum experience here and perhaps let's notch this up to a misunderstanding and that we can both learn from this simple play on words and take away a lesson from here in never making assumptions!

My very best wishes

N Scott MEng. CEng. FCII
Barcelona España oops Spain. There I go again....

I also do not like being referred to as OP I know technically it is a way of identifying the original poster but I prefer to take the trouble to actually read and use the name of the person of whom I am writing about. I just love the formalities but rarely use my post nominal letters.

There is another clue that I am English and that is the picture for my "avatar" or membership badge which is me sitting in my English registered Westfield Sportscar, I think the number plate is showing. That may just give it a way a bit more.

 

[spiritburner]

Neil when you mention "disks" are you referring to the saw blades? The one that comes with the blade will probably be a combination blade for carpentry work and be okay for basic carpentry work. Try it before ordering more and investigate what you need to make sure you get what you need.

Pete

Thanks for that and yes it was my error in writing I forgot I was writing in English and used the spanish word, trouble with being english but being bilingual at the same time gets me in to all sorts of troubles especially when using the word dust which I can not translate to Spanish here as its very rude if mispronounced !!

 

[Inspector]

spiritburner being Canadian I sometimes wonder what the he...double hockey sticks these guys are talking about. The terminology for woodworking is different and there is no figuring out some of the other expressions used, that's why I asked.

Pete

 

[cowtown_eric]

There quite simply is not one correct push stick. To search for the one "correct" one is a fools errand!

 

[Ttrees]

Here's some reading taken from the archives, for those who value their fingers.
Lots of the good stuff from before the mass exodus.
There was much emphasis on safety, regarding the community keeping newcomers from having accidents back then, and ads which promoted the opposite like those gripper style pads, wouldn't have been tolerated whatsoever for use on a tablesaw.
Likewise with the unsuitable shoe designs, what's much too short.
If one needs such a thing, then Steve Maskery's posts, feature a safe version of one of those.
i.e the required specs as per HSE advice.

That should keep ye busy, instead of watching American youtubes.
All the best.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf
Or
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/circular-saw.pdf

And some links to the UK forum, which has many great threads in the archives
Might as well number them for folks wanting to study, in no particular order...
1
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-guard.129299/
2
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-again.134819/
3
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...k-back.134376/
4
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-angle.104772/
5
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...n-here.145770/
6
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1316680
7
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...e-2#post-55548
8
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1237571
9
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...0/#post-464040
10
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...le-saw.130321/
11
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...ard-on.133301/
12
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...3/#post-398582
13
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...op-usa.145976/
14
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...ut-them.10490/
15
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1504540
16
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-guard.129299/
17
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...sticks.124516/
18
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1352165
19
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...al-mod.118878/
20
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...blocks.107009/

 

[Nick c]

Here's some reading taken from the archives, for those who value their fingers.
Lots of the good stuff from before the mass exodus.
There was much emphasis on safety, regarding the community keeping newcomers from having accidents back then, and ads which promoted the opposite like those gripper style pads, wouldn't have been tolerated whatsoever for use on a tablesaw.
Likewise with the unsuitable shoe designs, what's much too short.
If one needs such a thing, then Steve Maskery's posts, feature a safe version of one of those.
i.e the required specs as per HSE advice.

That should keep ye busy, instead of watching American youtubes.
All the best.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf
Or
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/circular-saw.pdf

And some links to the UK forum, which has many great threads in the archives
Might as well number them for folks wanting to study, in no particular order...
1
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-guard.129299/
2
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-again.134819/
3
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...k-back.134376/
4
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-angle.104772/
5
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...n-here.145770/
6
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1316680
7
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...e-2#post-55548
8
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1237571
9
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...0/#post-464040
10
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...le-saw.130321/
11
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...ard-on.133301/
12
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...3/#post-398582
13
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...op-usa.145976/
14
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...ut-them.10490/
15
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1504540
16
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...-guard.129299/
17
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...sticks.124516/
18
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads.../#post-1352165
19
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...al-mod.118878/
20
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...blocks.107009/

I'll have a look. Always up for some sage advice.

 

[worn thumbs]

The HSE advice is clear,logical and works.I wonder if we should licence their work to the American insurance industry? They really do seem badly served with safety advice and even the machinery seems to lag European standards.When have you ever seen a rip saw fence of this type mounted with the wide side down to allow better access?I don't know if its ignorance or the NIH syndrome.

 

[Phill05]

Many thanks for your very gifted advice .

I'll move on from the P***ing contest shall I ? I feel I have probably established my credentials sufficiently.

No no you feel free to let it rip good on yer.

Love the control box never used laser myself only cnc.

 

[Rex deWolf]

I thought you might like to see this, it’s a saw very similar to yours that I built into a worktop for Dil, it all had to be very carefully measured to work. But you can shim and wedge to get it set right.
The fence on those saws extends way out to the right, as you can see there are a couple of slots and the fence just skims the work surface.
This one was built into a garage and nothing was level grrrrr. I also built in a crosscut saw, and a vice.
Ian
View attachment 175938View attachment 175939

You just need the router table insert now - maybe a few inches behind the vice Lovely job

 

[Cabinetman]

Thank you. Do you know I’ve very rarely used a router so it never crossed my mind to fit one, but as soon as I mention this to Dil I’m sure she will want one lol

 

[spiritburner]

No no you feel free to let it rip good on yer.

Love the control box never used laser myself only cnc.

Cheers how about this one then, its on my own personal 160 watt CO2 laser so I went seriously OTT..

Basically these are all LED switches on the bottom panel with various states of operation On,Green,Off Red, Yellow Fault.

Because these types of switches are mainly low amperage I used them to drive a series of 10 and 30 amp relays which then operate other things like the sockets on the back of the control box and using Gcode I can operate an Air Assist and the fan extraction system as the laser demands it via Lightburn software, all clever stuff but mainly it looks cool!!

It also means on the front of the control box there is no high voltage being switched so if you have damp hands no chance of an electric shock at all. Similar to Industrial PID stuff, everything high voltage is behind safe low voltage.This Laser takes a 28,000 unit to make it energise the plasma and while low amperage it is still enough to stop your heart if you were to touch the live side.

I wouldn't normally go to this extent for a client unless demanded as it takes a lot of time and expense, it was also an exercise in how to use a electronic relay without using a microcontroller to make it function.

If anyone needs help on these then please just let me know as they are actually dead easy to wire up

cheers

Neil.

ps For very serious Trekkies out there, some numbers in the middle of the panel have a lot to do with Spock.

 

[artie]

Here's my push sticks, which cover almost allof my needs.

I was a little careless with the plastic one once as you can see.

 

[TRITON]

Plastic pushsticks ARE NOT GOING TO SHATTER They would never be allowed to be sold here(UK) or US or any EU country. (As long as they are CE marked)
So people even suggesting that they could aren't really thinking about it properly.

Machine makers included them in standard equipment will be doing do more than likely because there is a legal requirement as put forth by the HSE.
But seeing them for sale, in anywhere other than a reputable seller they are going to come under the CE mark and as such will be fit for use, and won't shatter if they contact the blade, because if they did they would become a danger in themselves and thus fail under HSE/CE regulations.

Now you dont have to use plastic push sticks, but like anything they are available for sale, and in the internet now being a portal to all things for sale, there will be ones made under CE regulations, and mass produced ones of unknown material. That in itself is not the fault of the plastic push stick and it is the responsibility of the buyer to buy quality. THAT GOES FOR ANYTHING YOU BUY VIA THE WEB.

As woodworkers(Hobbyists/pros) making a push stick should be as simple as pouring a glass of water, but you don't have to, and if you prefer to buy something then thats fine, only having the materials to make them readily to hand, and the tools to do so, it is economical to make your own. Plus given if/when they do contact the blade they are seen as a consumable item, and can be readily replaced for little to no cost.

You can buy plastic, you can buy wood, you can make your own.
As to how they should look, as in what pattern you should follow, in that should they be long, or short or triangular shaped with a handle, or the shape of the notch,if there is a notch, then simply look at the type the HSE recommend, which as push sticks are unsurprisingly stick shaped.

I suppose if you just refer to the HSE for any safety question, you'll not go wrong. It is in their remit to make tasks safer, not more dangerous.

If you want to use something you got on Amazon for $4.99 for 5 or made yourself to a pattern you saw someone use on You Tube, you do that. But dont dare complain they were not up to task or proved to be dangerous. The onus is on you there.

As to "Best ever" that is probably the most overused and overrated couple of words the English language has brought forth. Are they the 'best ever' or are they for sale via a link on someones you tube vids where they receive an income from the link ?. Again referring back to HSE, The HSE arent doing it for an income, they are doing it for the reason of keeping people safe and protected and only that reason.

 

[Jacob]

Plastic pushsticks ARE NOT GOING TO SHATTER They would never be allowed to be sold here(UK) or US or any EU country.
So people even suggesting that they could aren't really thinking about it properly, it's something akin to an urban myth.

Machine makers included them in standard equipment will be doing do more than likely because there is a legal requirement as put forth by the HSE.
But seeing them for sale, in anywhere other than a reputable seller they are going to come under the CE mark and as such will be fit for use, and won't shatter if they contact the blade, because if they did they would become a danger in themselves and thus fail under HSE/CE regulations.

Now you dont have to use plastic push sticks, but like anything they are available for sale, and in the internet now being a portal to all things for sale, there will be ones made under CE regulations, and mass produced ones of unknown material. That in itself is not the fault of the plastic push stick and it is the responsibility of the buyer to buy quality. THAT GOES FOR ANYTHING YOU BUY VIA THE WEB.

As woodworkers(Hobbyists/pros) making a push stick should be as simple as pouring a glass of water, but you don't have to, and if you prefer to buy something then thats fine, only having the materials to make them readily to hand, and the tools to do so, it is economical to make your own. Plus given if/when they do contact the blade they are seen as a consumable item, and can be readily replaced for little to no cost.

You can buy plastic, you can buy wood, you can make your own.
As to how they should look, as in what pattern you should follow, in that should they be long, or short or triangular shaped with a handle, or the shape of the notch,if there is a notch, then simply look at the type the HSE recommend, which as push sticks are unsurprisingly stick shaped.

I suppose if you just refer to the HSE for any safety question, you'll not go wrong. It is in their remit to make tasks safer, not more dangerous.

If you want to use something you got on Amazon for $4.99 for 5 or made yourself to a pattern you saw someone use on You Tube, you do that. But dont dare complain they were not up to task or proved to be dangerous. The onus is on you there.

As to "Best ever" that is probably the most overused and overrated couple of words the English language has brought forth. Are they the 'best ever' or are they for sale via a link on someones you tube vids where they receive an income from the link ?. Again referring back to HSE, The HSE arent doing it for an income, they are doing it for the reason of keeping people safe and protected and only that reason.

Actually the HSE one is a bit inadequate IMHO. Better than nothing but has a small birdsmouth - and they only advise using one. HSE needs bringing up to speed - OK, but they could do better.

 

[spiritburner]

Plastic pushsticks ARE NOT GOING TO SHATTER They would never be allowed to be sold here(UK) or US or any EU country. (As long as they are CE marked)
So people even suggesting that they could aren't really thinking about it properly.

I am very wary of purchasing Items even with a CE mark without doing due diligence first, the CE mark is regularly abused by the Chinese markets to fool people in to thinking they have bought a compliant and tried and tested product.

Always check the background of the product you are buying and if the price seems low chances are that CE stamp is a FAKE.

 

[TRITON]

I am very wary of purchasing Items even with a CE mark without doing due diligence first, the CE mark is regularly abused by the Chinese markets to fool people in to thinking they have bought a compliant and tried and tested product.

Always check the background of the product you are buying and if the price seems low chances are that CE stamp is a FAKE.

Thats fair comment. So use price and a reputable dealer to purchase it from for clarity as to whether it is a genuine product or not.

 

[spiritburner]

Thats fair comment. So use price and a reputable dealer to purchase it from for clarity as to whether it is a genuine product or not.

Exactly! Buyer Beware and Due Diligence I have always used and the premise I stick to is if its too good to be true then chances are it isnt, that and Nothing is Free in life.

They seem to have kept me in good stead over the years. It may seem cynical but its the way I see things.