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I think I'm missing something - to my knowledge grants have been done away with and students have to find the degrees now? So the tax payer isn't paying for them.

Actually I don't have an issue with paying for students to go to uni. I think the average graduate wage is around £24k and graduates generally rise up the salary scale quite quickly. So therefore they are also paying the most tax.

I know there will be students who don't do so well and people that don't go to uni that do very well etc. but as a general rule graduates will pay a lot more in tax over their life time than someone who leaves school at 16. The higher the level of education the better the country should perform and therefore the better for all of us.
 
I don't really mind the trailers in between the the programmes, they can be easily ignored, although they are annoying and there seems to be more of them now.

What I find really annoying and stupid are the announcements over the end credits of programmes and films. I switch the sound off as soon as the credits start to roll or change to another channel.
 
Stu - many graduates will not earn enough to pay back their loans, so the taxpayer does pay for them. Blair wanted 50% of people to be graduates. The best comment I read ages ago was from someone who said that when "O" levels were introduced in the '50's they were deemed suitable for the top 20% of the population - now degrees are deemed suitable for the top 50%. Human intelligence hasn't changed any significant amount in 60yrs, so something else has.
Besides which there are few jobs that actually require graduates, so kids are doomed to chase them - my nephew has a very good first degree, but has accepted that he needs a masters if not a doctorate to get a job in his field. (and that's environmental sciences - in NZ :shock: )
 
Would I like my thread back? Not at all. There has been a very interesting range of responses, and the idea of padding out programmes to allow for exporting to other countries makes a lot of sense ( although still irritating). I too make a great deal of use of a PVR so as to fast forward through the dross when watching non-BBC channels. Perhaps I should do the same for BBC as well. We often have a cup of tea and delay the start of a live broadcast so as to watch it while being able to skip the adverts.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond.

Just another thought - do people feel that documentaries are suffering from a considerable level of dumbing down? Lots of repeated statements and irrelevant video? Grumble, grumble. And I readily determine this inferno preemptive typing on my table.

K.
 
graduate_owner":2pvkzd1s said:
Just another thought - do people feel that documentaries are suffering from a considerable level of dumbing down? Lots of repeated statements and irrelevant video? Grumble, grumble. And I readily determine this inferno preemptive typing on my table.

K.

My pet hate, a recap of the program straight after the adverts,
"Janet and John are attempting to build a house with no experience and an unrealistic budget"
I know what is going on I just watched it, then 10 minutes later another recap "Janet and John are attempting to build a house with no experience and an unrealistic budget" and then at the end they talk about 'the journey' that they've been on. (hammer)

Rant over, as you were.
 
Dumbing down? Yes, definitely. I watched "The Wonder of Britain" last Tuesday (9 pm, ITV1) as I had seen a trailer for it (!) saying it was about industrial heritage.

It was nothing but a collage of pretty pictures, with a bland and superficial commentary, darting about from place to place, sometimes without even bothering to say where they were. No engagement with the subject beyond saying 'look at this, now look at that.'
 
As to how the BBC is run and whether or not there are too many "commercials" , I have no opinion as we get little of your program content , and that comes second hand to Our Canadian or (shiver) American stations. I can say that I actively seek out British programs when I can as the content otherwise is so abysmal . The vast majority of our programs are dumbed down to such a low standard as to make even those of moderate intelligence (myself ... hopefully) cringe. reality programs that are so obviously scripted that proffesional wrestlers wonder how the public swallows them are a backbone item on the "specialty" channels. These are channels set up for learning for the most part at their inception, specific to an interest and aimed at those who want to know more about that interest. An example is the OLN or outdoor living network, once a group of programs on ...outdoor living , and activities pertaining to the outdoors. Not for long though, as now it is about the lives "in reality" of people that should be kept outdoors to avoid messes on the carpet.
The Food network was once a place for those who wish to learn about cooking. Not for long though. Now one of the flagship productions takes Gordon Ramseys cook or I'll cut you type of competition and adds sabotage and bribery to the fun. I could run through the list of 50 or so "specialty stations , but they all follow the same pattern of lowest common denominator thinking. Explosions ... check , heartbreak ... check , paint it purple ...check, but no learning for god 's sake ... double check. Must go now and brew a cuppa and watch an episode of Doctor Who to bring the blood pressure back to a measureable level. I may not learn anything , but since that is not the intent of the show , that's OK. Just good silly fun ... as advertised ...check.
 
First - I agree completely with DiscoStu regarding student funding. But back to the BBC ...

AndyT":12g3pjwj said:
Dumbing down? Yes, definitely. I watched "The Wonder of Britain" last Tuesday (9 pm, ITV1) as I had seen a trailer for it (!) saying it was about industrial heritage.

It was nothing but a collage of pretty pictures, with a bland and superficial commentary, darting about from place to place, sometimes without even bothering to say where they were. No engagement with the subject beyond saying 'look at this, now look at that.'

The trouble is that even the documentaries on subjects that I ought to like (e.g., anything to do with making stuff, or archeology), are made boring by stretching out an idea that could have been presented succinctly in 10 minutes into a 1 hour epic. Either by running over well trodden ground, repeating the same material several times for the sieve minded, unneeded and cringeworthy re-enactments, or - worst of all - buiding up for the revelation of that one new idea in the whole programme using that intense, melodramatic tone of voice that so winds me up. It is nearly as bad as the pregnant pause with human heartbeat sound effects before any winner or loser of any form of competition can be announced ...

There. Got it out of my system.
 
This is quite an interesting thread. I was a secondary English teacher for many years, then became a teacher trainer. One of the spin-offs was that I also became a Media Studies lecturer. I was initially sceptical - I'm an English teacher - but I really enjoyed it, simply because it was a subject that had taken over the criticality, the questioning, that had been at the core of A Level English teaching, and which just isn't there any more. In terms of teaching young minds to question and to challenge, there was nothing to match it.

However. This more or less coincided with the last government's ambition to see 50% of the age group in higher education. That was bonkers. 50% of that age group aren't going to benefit from education at that level. 10% might. One of the downsides was the creation of Mickey Mouse courses in areas like Refuse Management or Golf, simply to cater for the less able.

A degree, in anything, should be an opportunity to learn how to think and how to communicate. It is not a passport to a good job, as so many kids have found out, to their and to their parents' cost.

The other downside is the devaluation of the apprenticeship. I was lucky enough - this is 20 years ago - to have had a short secondment to Rover, before they were asset-stripped. They were very much in bed with Honda at the time, so there was lots of TQM )Total Quality Management), and it was all very positive. For example, every employee was given cash to spend on learning. It really didn't matter if, as some did, you wanted to spend the money on learning fly-fishing. The point was, they were encouraging people to learn.

That was supported by terrific educational opportunities within the company. You could start as an apprentice, but, because the assumption was that you would succeed if you could show that you were a learner, there was a pathway that led to a Warwick University accredited degree - open to all. Some of the research was fascinating - using light and polymers to create utterly accurate casting patterns, for example - that would match work in many university departments.

The other telling point was what one apprentice manager said. This was when D & T became more about designing packaging than about learning to cook and working with 'Resistant Materials' (how wrong-headed is that as a term?). Yes, he said, we have robots now, but we still need people who can file square, because someone has to fit them.

(One of the nicer features of the robotised assembly line, which all visitors were shown, was a giant plastic spider on a string. When visitors were being encouraged to display awe and wonder at the cleverness and precision of the spot-welding robots, the spider would be lowered into their eyeline. Nicely subversive.)

I like this forum. It's a good corrective to most of the very dodgy values that kids are asked to accept as normal nowadays.

And, yes, I am one of Jacob's fans. Long may he continue to promote the kind of commonsense that rooted in experience and in the rejection of passing fads.
 
Yes exactly, the Janet and John scenario is exactly what I had in mind. Repetition, repetition, and yet more repetition, and the information was not that good in the first place.

AND

It seems Canadian and American television must be truly awful.

K
 
Hi Graduate , and yes , for the most part it is horrible. I do not wish to say that it is all muck though. There have been some bloody brilliant bits in fact. Breaking Bad is well thought of by many , Big Bang Theory can be very funny and many like the series Vikings. But the writing is clearly on the wall that good programs will continue to be a shrinking minority. Mental pablum with a side of outright insultingly stupid sells product and therefore will prevail. Sorry to rant but this is sort of a button issue for me as health keeps me indoors more than I'd like. Even the basement shop is subject to fewer hours as our hydro-electric company makes running even a scrollsaw a think twice moment during peak hours. the charge is 1.8 times higher during peak . Good thing I have the UKW lot for conversation and my hand tools and PBS for diversion. Still using electrickery , but the flow is low.
 
Well I am very glad I started this thread, I wasn't sure anyone would be interested - how wrong I was. I have to thank Eric the Viking in particular for sharing with us his first hand (and first rate) insight into the BBC. That is the sort of information you just don't come across normally.
Interesting also to read about the cost of electricity in Canada. I have never really considered what it costs to run my kit, although I certainly would not entertain the idea of heating my workshop by electricity.

As an ex secondary school teacher myself (not in the craft disciplines) I agree with the comments about university for the masses. I don't wish to sound elitist here but I do think that higher education is not the way forward for the proposed 50% of our youngsters. It's almost like setting them up to fail, then saddling them with a huge debt to repay for the privelege. Provide the opportunity for those who can benefit from it by all means but the appropriate opportunity does not have to be a university education.

Thanks to all who submitted posts, and keep 'em coming.

K
 
I actually heat with oil , so it ain't the heating , it's the SAD or seasonal affective disorder. My shop is my happy place in more than one way you see. During the short days I use a powerful battery of lights in the basement to simulate daylight and combat a sort of creeping depression (that's the SAD bit). My wife ,being the supportive type she is ,went whole hog here . We run 3 flourescent 125 watt bulbs (a foot long if they are an inch) and a 600 watt lamp of the type found in shops that specialize in glass smokeware and tye-died T-shirts to supply a sunlike component. All this lights up the downstairs like a stadium night game, and works wonders. Keeps me a jolly oaf rather than a sociopathic troll all winter. Sort of funny where a thread on the BBC can lead , ain't it? :lol: And now , back to our regularly scheduled program.
 
Higon":21fbkasm said:
MIGNAL":21fbkasm said:
Yes, get rid of rubbish stuff like BBC 2, 3 & 4, Radio 3,4. Then we can all enjoy much more X factor and big brother.


Get rid of Radio 3? That would be the end of civilisation as we know it! Sir Humphrey Appleby GCB, KBE, MVO, MA (Oxon)

They already have. Ever since Roger 'Wrecker' Wright took over as Controller (thankfully he has now gone) he's dumbed down the station to the very pits and it should be renamed ClassicFM-Lite.
 
graduate_owner":3qq8d2e7 said:
.....
Just another thought - do people feel that documentaries are suffering from a considerable level of dumbing down? Lots of repeated statements and irrelevant video? Grumble, grumble. ...

K.

Totally agree with you. Not just the BBC either. You can take most Channel 4 documentaries...for example the current execrable Food Unwrapped series...actual relevant content 30 seconds....the rest is puff and rubbish.
 
harryd":1bme8832 said:
.....because it was a subject that had taken over the criticality, the questioning, that had been at the core of A Level English teaching, and which just isn't there any more......

Hah! And they said that 'A' levels weren't dumbed down !

My missus used to be a Scale 4 Departmental Head and History as her own subject. She taught her students how to question and debate, to research as much as possible. These days, as far as she can gather, it's all pretty pictures and zero questioning of sources.
 
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