Acoustic guitar under saddle pickup - recommendations?

[MrTeroo]

Does anyone have any recommendations for one of these?

For a six string Yamaha FS730S small body acoustic

I want a passive pickup wih minimum or no quack
Ease of fitting would be a good feature too.

Thanks

 

[thetyreman]

I've used a fishman neo D in the past for gigs, the only problem with it was being too quiet in output sometimes.

 

[MrTeroo]

Thanks but that's a soundhole pickup isn't it?

I want a passive under saddle pickup.

 

[NazNomad]

I've used piezo rod pickups, they seem ok.

https://www.cbgitty.com/piezo-rods/ - I get most of my stuff from Ben in the USA, but you can probably source them here.

 

[Keith 66]

Piezo rod pickups are very good, i use them all the time in cigar box guitars & the sound is superb. I machine a narrow slot in the bridge & the pickup sits in it with the top part of the bridge that is notched for the strings sits on it. Look on amazon or ebay & they can be had for around £2 each. You can couple them direct to a jack socket or through a preamp for more oomph.

 

[NazNomad]

Yayy, another CBG fan. \/

 

[profchris]

Another possibility is to use piezo discs attached to the underside of the soundboard. eBay will show you lots of these, usually three discs attached to a tailpin jack socket. I installed one of these into a cigar box ukulele I made for a friend, and he's very happy with it.

I think there is greater risk of feed back than using an under-saddle pickup, and also they pick up more noise from touching the body (so depends on your playing style). OTOH, a more naturally "acoustic" sound without quack, and the only modification to the guitar is the hole for the jack socket, which you need anyway.

 

[Keith 66]

Disc piezos are very sensitive & will be biased towards treble notes, you will pick up & amplify your clothes rubbing on the guitar, your fingers, anything. They will often feedback like crazy unless heavily damped with silicone rubber or cloth. The rod piezos pick up direct from the strings & have a far nicer tone & are far less likely to feedback. Having tried both there is absolutely no contest. All my CBGs get rod piezos as standard.
I was at a Cigar box guitar festival last february & i was surprised that i was virtually alone in using rod piezos, most builders were using discs or magnetic pickups. They were amazed at the sound quality from the rod piezo set up.
If you look up Mud n Mojo on Fb you can see a fw i have built.

 

[DannyEssex]

Disc piezos are very sensitive & will be biased towards treble notes, you will pick up & amplify your clothes rubbing on the guitar, your fingers, anything. They will often feedback like crazy unless heavily damped with silicone rubber or cloth. The rod piezos pick up direct from the strings & have a far nicer tone & are far less likely to feedback. Having tried both there is absolutely no contest. All my CBGs get rod piezos as standard.
I was at a Cigar box guitar festival last february & i was surprised that i was virtually alone in using rod piezos, most builders were using discs or magnetic pickups. They were amazed at the sound quality from the rod piezo set up.
If you look up Mud n Mojo on Fb you can see a fw i have built.

Hi Keith,

I am about to start my first CBG build, I have sourced everything I need apart from a suitable neck material. Would you advise for or against having a truss rod?

Also, nice to see another user from Benfleet (hammer)

 

[NazNomad]

I am about to start my first CBG build, I have sourced everything I need apart from a suitable neck material. Would you advise for or against having a truss rod?

Also, nice to see another user from Benfleet (hammer)

I've built 3 and 4 string CBGs and never used a truss rod. I can pick up one that I haven't touched in ages and it'll be in tune.

Also, I know where Benfleet is. :-D

 

[Keith 66]

Hi Danny, If you are building a 3 stringer you can get away without a truss rod. I have not used one on any of mine & they are still straight!
I usually make them 25mm thick by about 40mm wide though you can go narrower. Then the finger or fret board goes on top. My first ones tended to have the strings too far in from the edge of the neck which is not good for slide as you tend to rattle the slide up the frets occasionally which sounds awful.
You should be aware that once you have built one it will not stop there, It is a disease & before you know it you will be up your knees in them!
You are just round the corner so feel free to pop round & see my tribe of cbg's. Will pm you my number.

 

[selectortone]

I was a guitar tech at a large guitar store before I retired. I fitted lots of different acoustic guitar pickup systems and, for a passive undersaddle system, I would happily recommend the Pure Mini from K&K. In fact, I like them so much I use them on my own acoustics for live performances:

http://www.kksound.com/products/puremini.php

and for a DI box to interface to a PA system you can't go wrong with a Para DI from LR Baggs:

https://www.lrbaggs.com/preamps-di/para ... tar-preamp

(I have no connection with either company)

 

[Keith 66]

$142 dollars for that pickup! I bet not many CBG's will get one of them.

 

[NazNomad]

$142 dollars for that pickup! I bet not many CBG's will get one of them.

Once you start throwing expensive parts at a CBG, it ceases to lose any real credibility as a CBG.

In this current market, the most expensive thing you will buy is probably the box to begin with (unless you own a cigar shop).

If you have a cheap/free supply of boxes, the strings are probably the second most expensive thing... Although you get 2 sets with every 6. :-D

 

[selectortone]

$142 dollars for that pickup! I bet not many CBG's will get one of them.

The OP was asking about under saddle pickups for acoustic guitars. Just thought I'd share my knowledge as someone who used to install them for a living. Like everything there's horses for courses, there's entry-level and there's what the semi-pros and pros use. "You pays your money and you takes your choice" as the saying goes.

 

[MrTeroo]

$142 dollars for that pickup! I bet not many CBG's will get one of them.

The OP was asking about under saddle pickups for acoustic guitars. Just thought I'd share my knowledge as someone who used to install them for a living. Like everything there's horses for courses, there's entry-level and there's what the semi-pros and pros use. "You pays your money and you takes your choice" as the saying goes.

And I'm glad you did

I've watched a few different YT videos showing various methods of installing it. Do you have any tips?

One video said the jack pin comes loose and wobbles. So they drilled a large shallow recess in the bottom of the guitar for a washer.

 

[Jacob]

Are pickups different from microphones? I've seen these used http://www.microvox.co.uk/ just needing a stick-on velcro pad to hold them

 

[selectortone]

. Do you have any tips?

It's a while since I've fitted them but from memory I used the "toothpicks through a cardboard template" method, as per youtube videos. I checked out the fitting instructions on the K&K site and they are a lot more comprehensive than they used to be! I used to buy my stock from a guitar store in California; no UK dealers back then.

The first ones I fitted, to my Gibson J-45, are still in there firmly and have been since 2004, despite lots of gigging. I like the simplicity - there are a lot of very sophisticated combined pickup and mic systems, but for me, just being able to plug the guitar into my Baggs DI and plug that into the PA works really well. If you get a good DI box with plenty of tone control and connection options you are good to go in most situations.

I used superglue gel (and IIRC they used to supply it with the pickups back then). I think you have to supply your own now. Twice the price I paid and no superglue... that's progress for you :mrgreen:

You can buy them from Thomann in Germany now, that would probably be the cheapest option.

 

[MrTeroo]

£97.99 incl p&p on eBay is the cheapest I have seen.

Is a DI box essential? What does it sound like plugged directly into an amp?

 

[selectortone]

Is a DI box essential? What does it sound like plugged directly into an amp?

Piezo devices have a very high input impedance, much higher than an electric guitar magnetic pickup (megohms vs a few k-ohms) - so plugging them directly into an electric guitar amp is not ideal due to the mismatch of input impedence - they work, but don't sound wonderful. Plus they tend to be a bit prone to feedback at stage levels.

A much better bet is a dedicated acoustic guitar amp. They are designed for a piezo pickup input and the speakers in acoustic guitar amps are more like PA speaker drivers with a flatter response. The speakers used in electric guitar amps are voiced for electric guitars. Acoustic guitar amps often have a channel dedicated for a mic input too, so they are good for small gigs and work like a mini PA.

Having said that I have used my J-45 straight into my 50w Mesa-Boogie DC5 and it was acceptable. It was an electric gig and the acoustic was needed for just one song.