Accurate drill-sharpening jig for Sorby Pro-edge?

[Chris152]

I've been doing some four facet sharpening and mostly it seems ok, but I'm sure it's pretty hit and miss as to where the centre lies and overall accuracy/ function. It's also time consuming for me, which puts me off and we usually end up with bits that aren't cutting before they get chucked in the 'to do' pile. I started looking for something like a Drill Doctor, lots out there but good ones are expensive.

I have a Pro-edge, and I've seen vids of a simple jig that holds the angle for four facet sharpening, but it's still down to user skill as to how accurate the results are. I really want something fool-proof and wouldn't mind spending some time building one. I saw this link in another thread on drill sharpening on UKW, it looks good but I'm left wondering how the designs could work with a Sorby, and there are lots of words to work through (I will, I will...).
https://gadgetbuilder.com/DrillSharp.html

Sooo - here's my question - has anyone got a fool-proof design for a drill sharpening jig to work with a Pro-edge?

Thanks, Chris

 

[redhunter350]

Chris, drill sharpening is an acquired skill and you can learn it with practice ! What size range are you wanting to sharpen ? Small drills [say 1/4" down] are more difficult than large drills from 1/4" upwards and much larger are even easier.
The Pro Edge is not IMO the best tool for drill sharpening, it may work but an off hand bench grinder is far better. However if you want something not expensive to try then this type Sealey may be worth a try, not ideal and they do take time to achieve result -- so I believe ! Personally I sharpen by hand & eye on larger bits and did on smaller bits but now I have a specialist machine for small drills - eyesight makes it difficult to see small drills.

Four facet is great for small drills but not for anything over approx 1/2"

 

[Amplidyne]

I hand sharpen anything over about 3mm. Under that I've got a 3d printed (but easy to fabricate anyway) "boomerang" style sharpener that holds the drill in a pin chuck for manual sharpening on a flat diamond stone. Works a treat. Although TBH, I haven't used it much. Friend who was a professional machinist says that they just replaced small drills, and hand sharpened bigger ones. YMMV.

ETA. He also says that the only way to sharpen drills very accurately is to use a proper tool grinder. Expensive and large piece of kit.

 

[Chris152]

ETA. He also says that the only way to sharpen drills very accurately is to use a proper tool grinder. Expensive and large piece of kit.

That's my understanding. Can we have a whip-round to get me one of these. And an extension to put it in?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1161871611569786/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:f11a722c-ba68-450b-84e2-756e2a2d0fcb

 

[Chris152]

However if you want something not expensive to try then this type Sealey may be worth a try, not ideal and they do take time to achieve result -- so I believe !

They're pretty cheap - a fair few negative reviews on accuracy, but maybe fettled/ re-worked, it could be made good? It's less than £19 in Amazon, I couldn't get the components for that.

I've now read the detail in the link I referred to above. All a bit complex for me, tbh.

 

[Amplidyne]

That's my understanding. Can we have a whip-round to get me one of these. And an extension to put it in?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1161871611569786/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:f11a722c-ba68-450b-84e2-756e2a2d0fcb

I know what you mean, although the link just leads me to a pile of random FB sales.
I guess you meant something like this.

https://excelmachinetools.co.uk/home/shop/grinding-machines/pbm-450a-universal-tool-cutter-grinder/

Funnily enough I was only looking at it's smaller brother yesterday

https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Universal-Tool-Grinder-2559.html

All expensive kit though.

 

[Chris152]

I know what you mean, although the link just leads me to a pile of random FB sales.
I guess you meant something like this.

https://excelmachinetools.co.uk/home/shop/grinding-machines/pbm-450a-universal-tool-cutter-grinder/

Funnily enough I was only looking at it's smaller brother yesterday

https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Universal-Tool-Grinder-2559.html

All expensive kit though.

Ah sorry - FB is a funny place. Yes, it was an older version of the first link.

Reading around (MIG forum especially), lots of people seem to think the Sealey SMS2008 does a decent job. I'm sure it's not up to machine tool standard, but it could be an easier answer than building something. It's about £60, and I see the cheapest Drill Doctor is about £115, which I guess isn't so bad. I think that one only does 118 degrees, but that'd be better than my clumsy efforts.

Hmmm...

 

[Amplidyne]

Ah sorry - FB is a funny place. Yes, it was an older version of the first link.

Reading around (MIG forum especially), lots of people seem to think the Sealey SMS2008 does a decent job. I'm sure it's not up to machine tool standard, but it could be an easier answer than building something. It's about £60, and I see the cheapest Drill Doctor is about £115, which I guess isn't so bad. I think that one only does 118 degrees, but that'd be better than my clumsy efforts.

Hmmm...

I've seen various reports for the Drill Doctor, both good and bad.
I've got a feeling that a lot of the results with any of these type of tools is going to be down to the operator, and that's true of pretty well any kit.
Machinist friend said that they had a tool grinder where he worked, but that it was fiddly to set up to get good results, so even that's perhaps not the entire "Out of the box" answer.

For general use, I really would recommend hand sharpening on the bench grinder. An angle gauge is useful, but hold it up to the light for checking the centre. It really is quite accurate. The bloke who taught us was fussy.

Also have a look at the "boomerang" jigs for smaller drills. Easy to fab out of a piece of plate, a couple of bearings, and one of the cheap pin chucks available on eBay. Or 3d print the body if you have the facility.

Doesn't really answer your original question I know, but it does work.

 

[Chris152]

If you're feeling brave, this vid might be of some help to anyone else thinking about sharpening drills with a sharpening device. But you really need to want to know, and the brands are those available on the US market. Best have a couple of drinks first, keep the volume low and remember it'll end before too long. I managed the whole thing but it might be interesting to set a timer to see how far into the video you can get.

 

[Inspector]

I gotta take a breath or two. I can barely think that fast much less listen.

Pete

 

[Amplidyne]

If you're feeling brave, this vid might be of some help to anyone else thinking about sharpening drills with a sharpening device. But you really need to want to know, and the brands are those available on the US market. Best have a couple of drinks first, keep the volume low and remember it'll end before too long. I managed the whole thing but it might be interesting to set a timer to see how far into the video you can get.

After a couple of minutes of that I thought, "Let the things stay blunt"

 

[Corset]

I have a sorby pro edge and a drill doctor and a bench grinder. If i have my eye in on the grinder is easiest, but it take me about 5-6 attempts to remember my technique and some swearing as i am a hobbyiest. Drill doctor takes me about a minute to remember what to do then it works. It may not be quite as good as a machinist who does lits but i havent had a terrible one ever. As i get older its easier to use the drill doctor than find my glasses..

 

[Sachakins]

Don't think any jig is fool proof.
Just pick one and practice practice practice.
As an apprentice in engineering, we had to learn the art of sharpening.
Up to 100 various bits perweek till the boss decided if we reached the grade. Took me about 4 months to get a pass grade from him. Took some 3 months bit most over six months.

Practice till your happy with grind, then keep your hand in by doing it regularly. It's worth buying some cheap stuff just to practice on and for keeping your eye in.

 

[RonnieI]

I use my Pro Edge for drills. Set the table at 60 degrees and then do the rest by hand. It's by no means perfect but it works pretty well. I just accept that bits less than say 4mm will have a limited lifespan because they're tricky to hold but bigger stuff is fine.

 

[Fergie 307]

Chris, drill sharpening is an acquired skill and you can learn it with practice ! What size range are you wanting to sharpen ? Small drills [say 1/4" down] are more difficult than large drills from 1/4" upwards and much larger are even easier.
The Pro Edge is not IMO the best tool for drill sharpening, it may work but an off hand bench grinder is far better. However if you want something not expensive to try then this type Sealey may be worth a try, not ideal and they do take time to achieve result -- so I believe ! Personally I sharpen by hand & eye on larger bits and did on smaller bits but now I have a specialist machine for small drills - eyesight makes it difficult to see small drills.

Four facet is great for small drills but not for anything over approx 1/2"

Those are actually ok used with a bench grinder. But little use for anything below about 4-5mm or so as I recall. Haven't used one for years.
Drill doctor is good once you get the hang of it.

 

[Pedronicus]

I gotta take a breath or two. I can barely think that fast much less listen.

Pete

Do you suppose his day job might be a caller on a horse race?

 

[Sideways]

I gotta take a breath or two. I can barely think that fast much less listen.

Pete

I don't think he can either.
There are an awful lot of edits in his videos. Somtimes feels like it's pieced together by the sentence.

But his tests are more objective than most youtubers and he includes international brands when he can get them. Good when you're trying to decide on a brand of hex bit or carbide burr.

 

[redhunter350]

Chris,
Here's another video that may help you ?

 

[Chris152]

Chris,
Here's another video that may help you ?

I made a wooden guide like that for the ProEdge, it works fine but I struggle with anything other than the bigger drills. But definitely good for four facet grinds, with a little practice.

In the end I went for a Sealey SMS2008, as a DIY jig was looking complex to make. I quite like it, but non completely fool-proof!



I've added a couple of markers to make locating the collet that holds the drill quicker (white on alignment insert, black on the grinding insert).

This is the cutting wheel with a bit inserted:



First cut takes too much off for my liking:




Second cut (after rotating the collet through 180 degrees) brings it back to shape:



And, if deburred, it'd look like a fairly decent grind:



Pretty quick to work through the drills, and the results seem to cut well on those I tested:



So - on the issue of first cut removing too much, I moved the abrasive disc further to the left but it still removes too much, so now I'm learning to just remove some (you're supposed to keep going until there's no more cutting sound, then flip the collet through 180 degrees), rotate 180 degree, remove some more, and eyeball it! So we're kind of back where we started! Ha. But it is easier than just freehand, pretty consistent results, and I'm happy enough with it for just under £60.