A sharpening thread :-)

[spanner48]

a smallish hard Arkansas stone which produces a nice fine edge. But has not held up particularly well as it has a few pits in it already

If it already has pits, it's not a true Black Hard Arkansas. There are many soft Arkansas stones that are sold as 'Hard', but aren't. I have had a BHA 8" stone for 30 years, and sharpened every shape of plane, chisel, gouge and knife on it. It is still unmarked, smooth and almost polished.

 

[pgrbff]

You still need to put a bevel on a chisel from time to time. A hand crank grinder will do that much more efficiently than rubbing it on a stone. No electricity needed. I have 2, neither of them work properly but if they do they are very good.

Krenov used a hand cranked grinder. Where did you get yours?

 

[kinverkid]

Oil stones for me. They won't need flattening. I still have the one my late, carpenter big brother handed down to me in 1981 (yes I can be that specific to the year). It has a coarse side and a medium side and is still in the wooden box he made. I only use the course side these days because I acquired a used medium-ish stone and a fine-ish stone from a car boot many years ago. I strop regularly and don't use the stones unless I've 'dinked' an edge. I rarely put a second bevel on chisels. It would only be for speed to sharpen but I'm never really in that much of a rush. I also have a permanently mounted felt wheel and buffing wheel on one of my grinders. If I use these then it is important to use very light pressure, really just enough that you're just touching the wheels with the tool. Too much pressure will slightly round off the edge. I do have some diamond stones but they have been relegated to occasionally put an edge on skew chisels and small gouges for lathe use. If you're keeping to water stones then use your old diamond stones to flatten them.

 

[Jacob]

Oil stones for me. They won't need flattening. I still have the one my late, carpenter big brother handed down to me in 1981 (yes I can be that specific to the year). It has a coarse side and a medium side and is still in the wooden box he made. I only use the course side these days because I acquired a used medium-ish stone and a fine-ish stone from a car boot many years ago. I strop regularly and don't use the stones unless I've 'dinked' an edge. I rarely put a second bevel on chisels. It would only be for speed to sharpen but I'm never really in that much of a rush. I also have a permanently mounted felt wheel and buffing wheel on one of my grinders. If I use these then it is important to use very light pressure, really just enough that you're just touching the wheels with the tool. Too much pressure will slightly round off the edge. I do have some diamond stones but they have been relegated to occasionally put an edge on skew chisels and small gouges for lathe use. If you're keeping to water stones then use your old diamond stones to flatten them.

Me too.
I went down the modern sharpening routine for some time but suddenly rediscovered trad sharpening.
Still have my first oil stone bought about 1968 I calculate. Only 6" so I stopped using it after buying 8" options.
No second bevels, no grindstone, no obsessive flattening/polishing.
I sold on the set of diamond plates and Sorby pro-edge I bought when I was still fiddling about indecisively and reading stupid magazine articles!
A little and often, takes virtually no time at all in reality as it amounts to very brief pauses during the job. Cost very little - if I'd kept it to the minimum from the start I reckon perhaps £200 would have done it for life. Stones don't wear out unless you are regularly doing axes and big stuff. Biggest expense is the occasional bottle of 3in1 oil, thinned with white spirit.
My only extravagance is a 3M diapad bought for another job years ago (cleaning up a marble fireplace surround), which I use to refreshen oilstones every now and then - which is essential; not knowing to do it often could be one reason for oil stones going out of fashion.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Déja vu all over again.

 

[Jacob]

A small point that Jacob skipped over is that using wet and dry paper on glass leaves a tiny step for your honing guide to ride over-you might not even notice it's effect.

I don't use a honing guide.
Sorry - just realised this is an old thread and I'm repeating myself, as usual!

 

[Jacob]

You still need to put a bevel on a chisel from time to time.

Not really. If it's damaged perhaps, or been misused without frequent resharpening. Even then, not that difficult with a coarse flat stone. Has to be done freehand fast and energetically - non of that cautious fiddling with a honing jig - they make sharpening more difficult.

 

[mark w]

Oil stones for me. They won't need flattening. I still have the one my late, carpenter big brother handed down to me in 1981 (yes I can be that specific to the year). It has a coarse side and a medium side and is still in the wooden box he made. I only use the course side these days because I acquired a used medium-ish stone and a fine-ish stone from a car boot many years ago. I strop regularly and don't use the stones unless I've 'dinked' an edge. I rarely put a second bevel on chisels. It would only be for speed to sharpen but I'm never really in that much of a rush. I also have a permanently mounted felt wheel and buffing wheel on one of my grinders. If I use these then it is important to use very light pressure, really just enough that you're just touching the wheels with the tool. Too much pressure will slightly round off the edge. I do have some diamond stones but they have been relegated to occasionally put an edge on skew chisels and small gouges for lathe use. If you're keeping to water stones then use your old diamond stones to flatten them.

Why won't they need flattening? All stones wear out, usually in the form of a hollow.

 

[kinverkid]

Why won't they need flattening? All stones wear out, usually in the form of a hollow.

I don't know why. But, I can't remember the last time I flattened one. The water stones often need flattening. Almost each time you use them. That's why they never come out of the drawer. There must be occasions to flatten them but I can't think of one. Maybe it's because I strop more than re-sharpen so don't wear a hollow.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've flattened my water stones twice in forty years.

 

[SammyQ]

On that regard Phil, I suspect the late, great, D.C. and his mantras on water stones may have had some influence. Certainly, his videos are quite good at convincing one that water stones wear quickly.

 

[Jacob]

Why won't they need flattening? All stones wear out, usually in the form of a hollow.

Not if you spread the pressure.
But a bit of a hollow is usually no problem as long as you know it's there.
I had one mysterious stone with deep hollow lengthways along the coarse side which I guess must have been from regular axe sharpening - axe forcefully applied to stationary stone. No problem at all and seemed to help vaguely.
But the fine side had the opposite - slightly rounded over - so little that I didn't see it at first. I found it out when I noticed a plane blade developing a "reverse camber", very slight hollow in the middle of the blade. But then I just changed the way I used it - making more pressure towards the middle of the stone.
This was an 8" Norton "0" coarse and extra fine.
I guess the fine side was regularly used on the same axe, but hand held, which could round it over slightly. Stone applied to stationary axe.
I only ever flattened a stone once to see if it helped in any way. It didn't.
If you were caught out in the wild somewhere and had to sharpen something urgently you would soon find out how to do even on a spherical boulder!
I never bothered with water stones, I couldn't see the point, especially after following all the struggles the users seem to have with them - endless flattening, fast wear, water all over the place and rust! It seems to be just a passing fashion. Sooner it passes the better!

 

[niall Y]

I recently replaced my Faithfull double sided stone 400/1000, as after about 5 years it had worn out. I still think that with regard to cost and useful size, they are a very good option.

 

[gold_bantam]

I love oilstones too, having made the switch from diamonds 18 months ago. Still learning about them as I don’t get much time in the workshop at the moment, but they have character and are more ‘adjustable’ and durable than diamonds. I only have my finest stone relatively flat for taking the burr off but I know experienced hands have no trouble doing it on a dished stone. I took Jacob’s advice and got a 3M diapad (well a knock off one) for conditioning the surface. It works great on the fine side but its 120 grit was too fine for the coarse India and it glazed it. So I had to bring the surface back with 20 grit silicon carbide powder on glass.

 

[Cabinetman]

Always been an oilstone man (1 brief diamond excursion) but just in the last few years I have found myself just using a very small part of the available 8” it varies with which bit I fancy using, 2” at the end? Just depends which bit I want to fettle it up on but it’s very rare I do full length swipes of the stone, the thing is though that tools seem to sharpen quicker and easier, maybe because it’s only 400 grit it does the job with 3 or 4 rubs over 2 inches. Still more than sharp enough for everything I do.
Ian

 

[TRITON]

Always been a fan of Japanese sharpening stones

Its just like have you ever known Japanese woodworking equipment ever to be of a bad design ? From their saws and chisels, planes and even marking and measuring its all well... Japanese.

These are the people who perfected swords of gruesomely keenness and thousands of years to perfect the art of sharpening them. Can't think of anything better.

 

[Jacob]

Always been a fan of Japanese sharpening stones

Its just like have you ever known Japanese woodworking equipment ever to be of a bad design ? From their saws and chisels, planes and even marking and measuring its all well... Japanese.

These are the people who perfected swords of gruesomely keenness and thousands of years to perfect the art of sharpening them. Can't think of anything better.

I think you've expressed the Japanese woodwork/tool myth very well!
Missed out the Camellia oil? Has it gone out of fashion?

 

[TRITON]

I think you've expressed the Japanese woodwork/tool myth very well!
Missed out the Camellia oil? Has it gone out of fashion?

So what you're saying is you are a better judge of sharpening than the Japanese throughout their three thousand years of sharpening metal things and protecting the steel with camellia oil ?.

Fair enough.

 

[mark w]

On that regard Phil, I suspect the late, great, D.C. and his mantras on water stones may have had some influence. Certainly, his videos are quite good at convincing one that water stones wear quickly.

They do.

 

[Jacob]

So what you're saying is you are a better judge of sharpening than the Japanese throughout their three thousand years of sharpening metal things and protecting the steel with camellia oil ?.

Fair enough.

I just haven't picked up on what is superior about traditional Japanese sharpening as it seems to be much the same as the Western variety, but using different materials as available, with slight variations in tool design. Basically rubbing to and fro on whatever stone was available - rounded bevels and all!
We have linseed oil and used to have whale oil. No need for camellia oil - an expensive exotic oriental import used cosmetically on hair and skin, not for rust-proofing old tools just because samurai warriors were supposed to use it on their swords!
https://www.freshskin.co.uk/product/camellia-oil/.