A new global opertunity for craftsmen

[Droogs]

I came accross something which I think will be of interest to anyone here who wants to sell what they make. Seems to be a good idea and I think will provide a much needed outlet for small-time makers/craftspeople to make their wares known to the general public. It is by invitation only even though it will be a division of Amazon. it looks like this is their answer to Etsy, but with a difference. They appear to be trying to prevent people selling any old carp by "vetting" anyone who applies. here is the link for those that are interested:-

http://services.amazon.com/handmade/han ... nkc7237-20

 

[No skills]

That's quite interesting.

 

[RogerP]

For several years I was an "associate" and sold stuff through Amazon.

Their fees and charges worked out dearer than eBay's and sales were far, far less than on eBay.

Gave them up a year ago.

 

[custard]

Thanks for posting that, I'll definitely be following it up.

I'm a bit sceptical in that I've found dedicated craft shops struggle to sell anything that costs more than £20, most of their trade seems to come from holidaymakers and day trippers who are trying to get out of the rain and locals looking for a low price gift. So I guess this Amazon option is going to be more relevant for someone selling a £2 candle rather than a £2000 desk. But who knows, nothing ventured nothing gained!

Incidentally, even though I haven't had much success with craft shops I've had a solid response from small, independent furniture/fabric shops that also offer an interior design service. The shop takes a 40% margin so you need to choose the right piece that can stand that mark up, but they've produced a decent number of sales which have in turn have led to direct commissions where of course the shop doesn't share the love!

 

[JohnPW]

Looks interesting!

From their faq:

What does handmade mean?

All products available in your Handmade at Amazon store must be made entirely by hand, hand-altered, or hand assembled (not from a kit). Products must be handmade by you (the artisan), by one of your employees (if your company has 20 or fewer employees), or a member of your collective with less than 100 people. Mass-produced products or products handmade by a different artisan are not eligible to sell in Handmade.

It doesn't say what "handmade" actually means!

I see they're showing photos of people using power tools, so I guess "handmade" can mean made completely with power tools and machines!

 

[Droogs]

I think their definition is that what you make is not made on a production line with automated equipment. They have as part of their application a section in which you have to descrribe how you make your product and whether you use hand tools - light machinery (power tools etc) - automated machinery or if you use mass production components and to what level they are part of the final product. so I'm guesing that using a router or table saw will be allowed but using a CNC wont.
Besides for me the only tools I use which abuse the electron are my sander (if needed) and my drill driver (cos I'm lazy)

 

[Droogs]

Thanks for posting that, I'll definitely be following it up.

So I guess this Amazon option is going to be more relevant for someone selling a £2 candle rather than a £2000 desk. But who knows, nothing ventured nothing gained!

I've just applied, and I'm hoping that the opposite is the case. I looking at this as an opportunity to get my products out to a wide market that are looking for something a little bit different. i've literally just started my own business making wooden laptops, computers and games consoles with boulle marquetry. my biggest problem so far is that where I am my only outlet option is throught he art world and galleries (who are looking to charge rediculous fees). This to me is an opportunity to get my stuff out onto a world market and be seen by that market, which will hopefully drive traffic to my new site when it's up and running latter this month.
The application process can take up to 4 weeks to get a reply, my htinking is much the same as yours Custard. nothing ventured ....

 

[Rhossydd]

I'm a bit sceptical in that I've found dedicated craft shops struggle to sell anything that costs more than £20, most of their trade seems to come from holidaymakers and day trippers who are trying to get out of the rain and locals looking for a low price gift. So I guess this Amazon option is going to be more relevant for someone selling a £2 candle rather than a £2000 desk.

That doesn't make sense. Yes, local shops are always going to limited to the passing clientèle, so may well only be able to sell cheap items if the passing trade isn't looking to spend high amounts.
Amazon should be able to provide a global shop front to people looking to buy good quality goods at realistic prices. If they get their quality control and promotion right, and it will be in their best interests to do so, it could offer a brilliant sales opportunity for those whose work is of a high enough standard.

 

[Mark A]

Thanks for posting that, I'll definitely be following it up.

I'm a bit sceptical in that I've found dedicated craft shops struggle to sell anything that costs more than £20, most of their trade seems to come from holidaymakers and day trippers who are trying to get out of the rain and locals looking for a low price gift. So I guess this Amazon option is going to be more relevant for someone selling a £2 candle rather than a £2000 desk. But who knows, nothing ventured nothing gained!

Incidentally, even though I haven't had much success with craft shops I've had a solid response from small, independent furniture/fabric shops that also offer an interior design service. The shop takes a 40% margin so you need to choose the right piece that can stand that mark up, but they've produced a decent number of sales which have in turn have led to direct commissions where of course the shop doesn't share the love!

My local 'junk shop' (that's what I call it) sells stuff for hundreds and it's all mass-produced in Asia out of the cheapest, crappiest materials they can find.

One time I actually took a photo of a cupboard they were selling to post on here - I've never seen anything so poor... treated rough-sawn softwood and 6mm MDF painted in stone grey. The preservative was seeping through the paint, the MDF looked like it had been hacked out with a reciprocating saw and the whole thing was racking terribly. A bargain at £800!

Don't underestimate what the public will spend their money on!

 

[Benchwayze]

The only true, hand-made thing I can think of is a snowball. And they don't last forever! 8)

 

[custard]

Don't underestimate what the public will spend their money on!

I've been around this game for some time, and I've seen lots of furniture designer/makers arrive with high hopes then either go belly up after a few years or segue into kitchens, shopfitting, joinery packages, yacht fitting...or something that actually pays the bills!

That's not a bitter complaint by the way, I'd cheerfully advise most people to buy their furniture at ikea and enjoy great design at astonishing prices, in much the same way that it makes sense to buy a shirt from Gap rather than Jermyn Street or Saville Row. But for that one in a hundred thousand person who demands that their shirt stripes actually line up between the arm and the yoke...

This would be pretty much the cheapest item I'd make, an occasional table at about £250-300. The grain wraps around the aprons, four degree splay to all the legs, book matched solid top, the aprons are mortice and tenoned to the legs with a reasonably complicated little adaptation (stub tenons plus interleaved finger tenons to get strength when the legs are so thin), and the hand cut stringing is cross grain where it runs cross grain (try cutting and fitting cross grain stringing with ultra tight glue lines and perfect mitres if you want to discover the meaning of "frustrating"!). So I reckon £250-300 is a bit of a bargain. Add a drawer (hand cut dovetails that conform to the four degree splay, drawer slips, Cedar of Lebanon drawer bottom) and the price is £400-500. Chuck in something fancy like arched "X frame" stretchers or a sunburst veneered top and you're soon talking £1200 plus for a pair.

And there's nothing special about any of this, every designer/maker I know operates at least at this level; many way, way higher. If you don't you go out of business.

So I'll live in hope and send an application off to Amazon, but the voice of experience whispering in my ear is saying the clients that pay these prices don't browse Amazon. But hey ho, let's see, I'd love to be proven wrong!

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The impetus for most if not everyone shopping on the internet is to get something cheaper than they have seen elsewhere. I'd like to think differently, but I tend to agree with custard about the likelihood of selling fine crafted stuff here being slight. Hope to be proved wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

Mike.

 

[Benchwayze]

That table doesn't look cheap Custard; let's say it's at an economy price. There's a difference I think... :wink:

 

[Droogs]

cheap - no
inexpensive - yes

 

[Rhossydd]

I tend to agree with custard about the likelihood of selling fine crafted stuff here being slight.

Well Amazon presumably think there's a market out there. I doubt they'd consider offering a service like this unless they thought it would be profitable.

From what I can see, most of the craft makers can't afford to do business in places where there is a wealthy clientèle, so being able to offer your wares in an online shop front of vetted, high quality suppliers on the world's biggest online marketplace seems a smart opportunity for those that can meet Amazon's criteria.

 

[Zeddedhed]

I'm somewhat reluctant to get involved in this chat but here goes....

Firstly, my own experience tells me that people are prepared to pay a decent price for good furniture from the likes of ourselves.
As an example I regularly sell a bathroom cabinet (I've posted it on here before) for £600. It consists of half a sheet of 13mm Oak Veneered MDF (Back Panel and doors) and 6.5 linear metres of 150 x 20mm Euro Oak. 3 small mirrors (about £55) 6 Blum hinges and three pop-out magnet things (The name escapes me at the moment)
Overall material costs are about £185.

It takes me no longer than 11 hours to make and finish.
I then charge postage/delivery on top.
I've sold about 25 - 30 of these in the last 12 months.

Now I'm not saying that these are fine furniture, and I am so far away from the standard of most of you that I can barely see you. I couldn't hope to make a table like Custards in anything less than a week. I use Dominos/screws and plugs for jointing.

The thing is that it seems that if there is a 'story' that a client can buy into then they'll happily pay for stuff.
The little 'crab' table that I posted in projects a month or so ago sold for over £300 - that was made from £40 of Oak and took 5 hours all in.

Please understand - I am NOT bragging. I could not possibly call myself a cabinet maker - more a joiner at best.

But I've grown a Ponytail (aka Richard Macquire) :lol: to look the part and show clients my cute little workshop with it's wood burner 'nestling in the heart of the Kent Countryside' and it seems to do the trick.

Take a look at Indigo Furniture as an example. They sell solid Oak furniture for sensible prices and they are going from strength to strength. They have got clients believing the ******** about leaving in the saw marks as part of the story of the piece - in reality it saves them money by cutting out several processes. Very clever.

Anyway, just my thoughts for what it's worth.

 

[davin]

Some very good points there.

I have a small workshop not far away from you (Uckfield). Trouble is that we aren't allowed to advertise on the road so I don't get any passing trade, no-one knows I am there.
If I could I would display some pieces to bring people in. I have sold some pieces through local shabby chic shops. But always end up thinking they make more money than me.
If I could use spare time in the workshop to make small batch items to sell it would be great. It would mean that I don't have to go out "chippying" any more.
Which also means that I can charge more, you can't really pass on workshop costs to a customer if you are not using your workshop for the work involved.
Have looked at Etsy, haven't found the time to sit down and think of how to procede, after reading these posts have decided to give Etsy or Amazon a try.
Just wondering how you market your cabinets?

davin

 

[Benchwayze]

Davin.

I thought workshop costs; rates heating etc. wear and tearon machinery, were called 'overheads', which you surely factor into your pricing formula?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Interesting conversation. Custard's take on it makes a lot of sense and it has many years of professional experience backing it up. Amazon is a very very big fish indeed and this is clearly a big new departure for them. I've no idea what Etsy's revenues are but presumably they're sufficiently large to make Amazon come sniffing around their business model?

I've signed up just to test whether they're interested in the little guy. If I can shift a few turned pieces through that channel then I think 12% isn't a high price to pay considering you're reaching half the planet, they handle your online billing admin and shipping. All the artisan needs do is make and carefully photograph. There is even an after market management reporting module so if you were shipping volume you can keep track of stuff for audit and accounting purposes.

It just strikes me that we frequently discuss how to access markets for the things we make or might want to make on the forum and suddenly, here's a monster global conglomerate offering what seems a near perfect solution out of the blue. At the very least this is an opportunity worth exploring. My gut feel is Custard will be right and this will be at the higher volume lower price end of trading but certainly....interesting to watch. I'll report what happens to my application.

 

[Droogs]

I would have thought that Amazons idea would be to concentrate on the "Handmade" part of the division and to me that sort of implies that it is not for high volume low cost products, afterall that's what the rest of amazon is for. The fact that they are vetting sellers seems to point to this as far as I can see. Etsy's whole raison d'etre is afterall for specialist low volume makers to ply their wares. admitedly most of it is tat but it's low volume handmade tat. I think this may well be an opportunity that small volume high quality professional makers of all crafts and trades would be relishing as a conduit to make themselves known to a wider audience, especially if they are smart about how they promote themselves through the site.
There does seem to be a trend towards more bespoke levels of service and products for those who can afford it and what better way for busy people to find us without the hassle of really looking.