3rd party chipbreakers

[Trafalgar]

I was a little disappointed with the first couple of Clifton 2-piece cap-irons I bought. The "deflector" doesn't sit flat in it's groove (like my Record Stay-Sets do), but rocks - the "high spot" that Derek refers to. I've since read that Clifton claim that's done intentionally. By having a high spot, the deflector sits like a three legged stool when in place - the high spot in the groove allows the other two legs (the leading edge) to sit flat on the cutting iron.

Maybe in the process of filing that high spot off Derek accidently filed the side walls of the groove, resulting in increased clearance, and this rotational problem he refers to???

Cheers, Vann.

FWIW, I looked at my Cliffy chipbreaker and the only file I own that would fit in the groove and give enough realistic clearance so as to not touch the sidewall is an auger bit file. And one would still have to be very careful.

I think you're on to something.

ECE use a similar 3-point concept for bedding the irons on their adjustable planes. The right side of the bed has a designed "hump" in it. Folks who have filed this away have inadvertently ruined the plane for all intents and purposes.

 

[David C]

What a bizarre question.

We go through the steps outlined above. and the end result is good. I have a spokeshave blade holder which grips the front piece for angle checking in a honing guide. the underside is blacked with felt tip and checked/worked on a diamond stone with a suitable prop. This is analagous to the work done on all other chipbreakers.

I am not proposing to go into every detail, perhaps you would like to come on a five day course?

David

 

[Trafalgar]

What a bizarre question.

We go through the steps outlined above. and the end result is good. I have a spokeshave blade holder which grips the front piece for angle checking in a honing guide. the underside is blacked with felt tip and checked/worked on a diamond stone with a suitable prop. This is analagous to the work done on all other chipbreakers.

I am not proposing to go into every detail, perhaps you would like to come on a five day course?

David

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant what happens when somebody shows up to a class other than one on hand planing, or is that a gateway course that you require?

 

[David C]

No worries. I try to persuade people to come on the sharpening, plane tuning, and accurate hand planing course first.

If a student's tool was not working well enough I would lend one of mine.

David

 

[Trafalgar]

Bacon strip shaving off highly figured hard maple with Record 4.5/Cliffy breaker with Hock iron. I didn't even bother to touch up the cutter. The surface is perfect, too:

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy32 ... 6ff7c3.jpg

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy32 ... 9b94f5.jpg

I don't see the problem. The only 'fettling' the breaker needed was a little underside honing and polishing at the business end. Five minutes probably three years ago. That's it.

The only fettling of the plane was the aforementioned (in this thread) removal of a slight nib of metal on the frog, a few seconds' worth of filing.

Less is more, gentlemen.

 

[paulm]

Bacon strip shaving off highly figured hard maple with Record 4.5/Cliffy breaker with Hock iron. I didn't even bother to touch up the cutter. The surface is perfect, too:

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy32 ... 6ff7c3.jpg

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy32 ... 9b94f5.jpg

I don't see the problem. The only 'fettling' the breaker needed was a little underside honing and polishing at the business end. Five minutes probably three years ago. That's it.

The only fettling of the plane was the aforementioned (in this thread) removal of a slight nib of metal on the frog, a few seconds' worth of filing.

Less is more, gentlemen.

Agreed !

No practical issues with any of my four Cliftons, all perform very satisfactorily indeed in my own "real world" usage

It is quite possible to over analyse life and get into theoretical arguments over splitting atoms and the nano science of things. Interesting if you're into that kind of thing I guess but of little practical relevance in real life woodworking I suggest.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Jacob]

I'd say that whether it's worth replacing cap-irons or cutting irons depends on what duty you expect of the planes.

For a No 5 set up as a proper jack plane (cambered iron, wide mouth, used to remove bulk waste without much regard to finish) then replacing the cap-iron probably won't improve performance much. .....

A two piece radically improves sharpening time if you do a regular quick freehand touch up, as removing and replacing a single piece cap iron becomes the most time consuming part of the process.

 

[Peter Sefton]

With reference to Derek's insightful review of chip breakers I said.
"we are trained craftsmen with years of on the bench experience and come at it from a different angle (no pun intended)"
By this I meant I am a Furniture maker and woodworker I have to solve practical issues of tolerance and hand finishing on a daily basis.
This is Clifton's FAQ's the bottom is regarding the chip breaker, I feel in some circumstances a misunderstanding of the product and its design is the issue, not the product it self.
http://www.clico.co.uk/bench-planefaq
I hope this clarifies my post cheers Peter

 

[Trafalgar]

Bacon strip shaving off highly figured hard maple with Record 4.5/Cliffy breaker with Hock iron. I didn't even bother to touch up the cutter. The surface is perfect, too:

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy32 ... 6ff7c3.jpg

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy32 ... 9b94f5.jpg

I don't see the problem. The only 'fettling' the breaker needed was a little underside honing and polishing at the business end. Five minutes probably three years ago. That's it.

The only fettling of the plane was the aforementioned (in this thread) removal of a slight nib of metal on the frog, a few seconds' worth of filing.

Less is more, gentlemen.

Agreed !

No practical issues with any of my four Cliftons, all perform very satisfactorily indeed in my own "real world" usage

It is quite possible to over analyse life and get into theoretical arguments over splitting atoms and the nano science of things. Interesting if you're into that kind of thing I guess but of little practical relevance in real life woodworking I suggest.

Cheers, Paul

You're lucky to have that many. All I have is their chipbreaker. I have no doubt they plane admirably right out of the box. Anybody who can't get theirs to work is welcome to send it to me.

 

[David C]

"I don't see the problem. The only 'fettling' the breaker needed was a little underside honing and polishing at the business end."

These small things only become a problem if they are not checked and sorted out.

Poor mating with the back of the blade may cause choking, as will blunt square edges on the tip. Fettling makes the difference between something that works perfectly and something that does not. The beginner may not appreciate these issues, and assume that the component is correct.

I remember a plane class at the Mark Adams school. About one third of the students had chipbreaker issues such as choking.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

 

[Trafalgar]

"I don't see the problem. The only 'fettling' the breaker needed was a little underside honing and polishing at the business end."

These small things only become a problem if they are not checked and sorted out.

Poor mating with the back of the blade may cause choking, as will blunt square edges on the tip. Fettling makes the difference between something that works perfectly and something that does not. The beginner may not appreciate these issues, and assume that the component is correct.

I remember a plane class at the Mark Adams school. About one third of the students had chipbreaker issues such as choking.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

Quite right. My comments were primarily addressed to those more experienced users who were having trouble with the Clifton 2-piece capiron. Other than for a very abbreviated amount of what I would call 'normal' fettling to improve the mating of the capiron to the cutter, I have not had any trouble with close settings or producing characteristic shavings in very difficult wood per the photos I posted.

It appears likely that one or two posters, in a fit of heavy-handed and ill advised fettling, may have ruined the thing altogether.