1st workshop machine advice

[andyw]

Hi all,

I've been reading the forum avidly for the last week and it's a real goldmine of useful information.

my first post...apologies for the length, but it's a bit of a story, so here goes.

I'm about to set-up my garage(5.6m x 5.0m internal) as a workshop and I need to kit it out.

The first project will be a large raised deck/patio but with custom wood sizing to match our existing balcony (largest piece 70mm x 280mm x 3000mm) and the finish needs to be very good. Next project will be some internal fitted wardrobes into the roof eaves.

I'm based in Reading Berkshire, and my budget is around £2.5-3k.

Visited the DM show last weekend and had a good look at the Metabo Optal 26 and Record C26 plus combination machines. The Record seemed to be the better option of the two, more solid and some nice touches to ease use; also later in the week a nice man at Isaac Lord explained that the spindle moulder could be used to help jointing smaller pieces into the 280mm sections needed which would help to keep down the wood sizes needed. So job done...Record C26 plus, some dust extraction and perhaps a bandsaw and slot morticer. A bit over budget, but that's life sometimes.

Then I found this forum and started reading about the pros of getting separates, the good reviews of the SIP table Saw etc, ditto much of the Axminster kit.

There's a local tool shop which stocks the SIP 10" table saw and also the Charnwood machines. The SIP looked more than adequate for me and big with the sliding table. At around £700 it looks good value and would be a safe buy.

Yesterday, I trekked over to the Axminster shop near Maidstone. It's impressive. Spent a long time picking the brains of another nice guy who knew his way around woodworking.

After much discussion with him and looking at spec sheets at home again, I chose the following list of Axminster machines as possible separates:

Axminster AW106PT Planer/Thicknesser c/w Cast Iron Fence
Axminster AW10BSB2 Sliding Table Saw Bench
Axminster AWEFSBB Bandsaw
Axminster ADE1200 Extractor
Axminster Router Table Kit c/w Cast Iron Fence
Axminster AW127R Router
Axminster Floor Standing Tilt Head Morticer

So, which way to go?

For combination machines, I've not seen much commentry on the Charnwood combination machine W600 - does anyone rate it (ditto the Fox Saw/Moulder/Planer). Are these any good for the money, or cough up for the Record c26.

Currently I'm leaning towards separates, and so would people comment on the above Axminster machines, any better options for the money etc.

Have I missed anything important, and can I really get by without the spindle moulder initially (I did look at the Axminster AW30S).

Any help appreciated.

Cheers
Andy

 

[beech1948]

You mentioned:-

>>>Axminster AW106PT Planer/Thicknesser c/w Cast Iron Fence
Probably OK.

>>>Axminster AW10BSB2 Sliding Table Saw Bench
OK. Some good write ups on here..see Tony posts. BUT also consider SIP which is almost the same machine but cheaper I think....also good writre ups

>>>Axminster AWEFSBB Bandsaw
Not sure. Consider Record 350

>>>Axminster ADE1200 Extractor
Consider Record or Camvac

>>>Axminster Router Table Kit c/w Cast Iron Fence
Avoid. Its too big, too costly and cumbersome . Make your own, buy a Triton and router plate

>>>Axminster AW127R Router
If this is one of the Axminster white ones then avoid like the plague.

>>>Axminster Floor Standing Tilt Head Morticer
A bit gimicky. Consider the weight and difficulty of trying to change angles precisely...maybe go for a simpler make eg best is possibly the Fox 5/8 morticer. Try Rutland.

regards
Alan

 

[ByronBlack]

The axminster bandsaw and p/t are perfectly fine machines. The tablesaw is better value than the SIP one as it includes the table. I wouldn't bother with the other stuff as I believe there are better alternatives, espeicalyl with regards the morticer and router table. Don't touch their own brand routers, they are positively crap. I would go for a triton/trend/dewalt.

 

[andyw]

I was thinking not to clutter my bench with machines such as a morticer. I'm not the most organized person, so I thought best to go floor mounted or get a stand for the bench mounted morticer? Is there a combined drill / morticer that works well?

For the router, I'll avoid the Axminster one. At the moment I don't have time to build a router table, so I'm looking to buy. How do people get around the lack of fine height adjustment - use a router with rack & pinion winder, such as the Triton 1/2" precision router, or use a table with it built in?

Cheers
Andy

 

[motownmartin]

Get the Triton, most peeps on here will say the Triton for the Table

You can also change the cutter above the table

 

[andycorleone]

Don't forget to leave some money for the extras, I have an SIP 10" CI Saw and a Axminster CI Planner thickenesser and believe it or not I had expend more in Extras than the two Machines together. To give you an Idea: Hand Tools, Books and Magazines, Glue and Finishing Products, Clamps, Sanders, Nails amd Screws, Dust Sytems, Cutters, Sharpening Kits, and a very long ETC
Request Catalogs for the Majors Suppliers Like:
Rutlands, Axminters, ScrewFix,... just to have a Better Idea of what are you going to need in the short future. Try to buy new because my experience with second hands tools is not very good but maybe is only my luck :wink: About spindle moulder Go for the router tables Route (most safe and versatile) buy a Incra Wonder Fence which is in Promotion in Tilgear for £139

 

[johnjin]

Hi Andy

Welcome to the forum

If I was you I would go for a Planer and separate Thicknesser. I have the Axminster ones and they are fine. The reason for the separate ones is that unless you are very organised in your woodwork you will be forever changing from planing to thicknessing as you can bet you have missed something, or a piece of wood is not as good as you thought it would be after thicknessing and you then need to plane up another piece. As for which ones to buy I can't really help except to say that I am very happy with the Axminster ones that I have.
Best of luck with whatever you decide

All the best

John

 

[OLD]

I agree with the above ,the last 3 on the list could be better . No time to make a router table then consider a 0.25 router they are much lighter and easy to use hand held and worth having. My final suggestion for the last 3 replacement is a festool Domino read up what it can do and you may agree that its a major desirable tool to start a workshop collection with.

 

[andyw]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

So far no champions are surfacing for any of the combination machines. I guess that means there are not a lot of them used here or they aren't up to much!

I've had a look at the Tritan router and bench and it seems to be very good from the demo videos, especially the through table height adjustment. Has anyone bought from www.tritontools.co.uk - any good bad experiences? They seem to have the best prices, but aren't mentioned on the forum shop list.

The Festool Domino looks a very nice tool aswell - choices, choices. I'm not sure how this could replace the router for edge finishing, but could certainly replace the morticer for a bit more money. Would this system be suitable (strong enough) to join decking stair treads to the stair stringers (notched in). I guess it would be if enough tenons were used and a hidden under step support beam was used. It would certainly help not to have to rout out the notches on the large stringers.

Cheers
Andy

 

[andycktm]

Hi Andy,
As for combi's if no one has got one, your never going to get the reply
your after.
you've heard the pro's for separates but not con's!
Dust extraction,power point's,space.
I've got separates,but i can honestly say if i started again tomorrow i would check out combi's.
But as i haven't got one i cannot tell you if there any good.

 

[Digit]

If you're walking into a local shop with that sort of wad in your hands start off by explaining two things.
1 You are kitting out a new workshop from scratch.
2 You will buy most everything from the one retailer, if the prices are right!
Don't be afraid to haggle and walk towards the door if they won't play ball. I'll be Damned surprised if they let you get to the door!
When I bought my SIP table saw I checked the prices on E Bay then walked into my local supplier and asked if they wanted to compete.
The following day the manager phoned and made me a deal.

 

[Shultzy]

Andy, Gasman has a C26+ PM him for his thoughts.

 

[andyw]

Thanks will do
Andy

 

[gasman]

Sorry about the delay in replying. I have a C26 plus which I have had since May this year. I bought it after seeing one in action in the garage of a retired chap in Oxford who makes clocks - he raved about it. I am limited by space (17x11 workshop) and this has definitely given me much more space.
My experiences with the machine have been excellent with 2 exceptions. 1). The riving knife is 0.5mm out of alignment with the saw blade. 2). The outfeed table of the planer is 0.5mm out of alignment with the blades.
Before you all dismiss the machine as rubbish, Record have been really very good in their after sales service. An engineer is coming out again tomorrow and I have been assured by them that either the faults are corrected to my satisfaction or they will replace the machine. They think it was manhandling the machine 50metres up my garden using a pallet trolley and 2 8'x4' sheets of ply which probably has shifted the alignment - which does sound plausible. I have not used the machine much this summer and do not use the planer much which is why it has taken time to realise the problems.
The one observation which I was warned about was the time taken to swap between the different operations. IMHO this is not a problem at all - in fact it is very easy to do so and more than made up for by the increased room it has given me.
So I will get back to you all when the engineer has visited here tomorrow to update you all.
Otherwise... the solidity and build quality of the machine seem excellent. If they solve my 2 problems I will be very satisfied with the machine. The spindle moulder and thicknesser have both performed faultlessly and it all does seem very solidly built.
I have been disappointed with my problems but impressed by the after sales service and the apparent willingness of Record to solve problems at all costs.
Will keep you posted

 

[gasman]

As promised an update on Record's after sales service....
The engineer was here most of the day whilst I was at work. He has completely reassembled the planer table which is now perfectly in line.
He has taken the riving knife away to 'alter' in some way and apparently will put it in the post tomorrow back to me.
He delivered FOC the new stand and wheelbase for the BS350 which is a vast improvement over the old cabinet type
I am impressed with their attention and hope this is the end of my problems.
Regards

 

[OPJ]

You will not be disappointed with the Axminster AW106PT2, especially now it comes with a cast iron fence! I bought the previous model a few months back and, even with the aluminium fence, it is an excellent piece of kit.

I'm also one to advise you go down the router table route, at least to begin with, if you have no experience with a spindle moulder. There aren't many tasks you cannot do with a router table that you can with a "shaper", plus, they're considerably cheaper and you can always build your own to suit your needs.

For future reference of anyone who may be interested, the cheapest spindle moulder I've seen on the market is by Charnwood at £600. Looks fairly decent too.

 

[andyw]

Hi everyone,

thanks for all the helpful comments.

I'm re-assured by the good experiences with record and triton and will swap some items over to them.

On balance I can't quite persuade myself that I need the record c26 - it looks a great machine, but I'm thinking separates will give me more flexibility going forward in workshop layout and upgrades if and when required.

Also, at £2800 it blows the budget when I can get the Table saw for £615, P/T for £530 and a triton router setup for around £400.

However, if there was a used record c26 plus being sold for around £1500 then I'd look at that seriously...optimistic I know.

Currently the list is looking like this:

Axminster AW106PT Planer/Thicknesser c/w Cast Iron Fence £531
Axminster AW10BSB2 Sliding Table Saw Bench £615
Record BS300X with stand & wheel kit £349 (DM Tools)
Axminster ADE1200 Extractor
Triton Router stand + table £197 (tritontools)
Triton Router TBR001 £185 (tritontools)
Fox 5/8 Morticer £189 (Rutlands).

Still around 1 week to go before I need to buy - should be nice for Xmas.


Cheers
Andy

 

[andyw]

Hi everyone,

haven't taken the plunge yet due to Xmas etc, but I'm getting close. Just a bit nervous..it's a lot of money.

I was visiting my local tool shop yesterday and they sell a large range of kit from hand tools to machines. They sell the complete range of Charnwood machinery and also the 10" SIP table saw.

Interestingly, he was very positive about Charnwood and their backup. When things go wrong, which they seldom do, but it happens, then Charnwood give him really good support to get it fixed. I know this sounds like 'he would say that' etc, but I'm being discreet and only relating part of our conversation.

So buying locally with that personal support is attractive to me.

Most of my choices for machines are from Axminster, which is a 90 min drive for me, so difficult to just to pop in if needed. Do people have any experience they wish to share around Axminsters aftersales care when things have broken.

Also, most of the Charnwood machines seem to be from the same clone pool as Axminster/Fox etc. Has anyone had any problems with them?

The table saw from Charnwood (W618) is £200 cheaper than the Axminster, but is not as robust.

However, the planer / thickness (W583) and 12" bandsaw (w720) seem to be roughly equivalent to the Axminster items, so could be replacements. Ditto the W335 morticer.

 

[OLD]

I say stick to your dec 1 plan but consider the SIP if you do not need the sliding table or can not find space for it. Your list is good and you could buy some things later and/or check out b&q for triton offer, if you do give some one a large order push for spare/additional blades etc to be thrown in.

 

[andyw]

The deed is done!

Visited Axminster in Kent today and bought the machinery. Delivery in around 5-10 days. So garage needs a good clearout!

Kept with the Axminster brands for everything bar the router which I still need to order from Triton.

Bought a simpler morticer, but kept to the table saw, p/t and bandsaw.

Another personal visit was worthwhile since I got free delivery and a whole bunch of spare blades, stands, chisels etc.

Many thanks to everyone who helped with advice. Very much appreciated and I'm now looking forward to getting on with the first project.