1st metal lathe questions, recommendations, advice please.

[Togalosh]

Hello Cheshirechappie,

A quick look on lathes UK link shows that there are no parts readily available (no real surprise there as it was made 1937-43 !)..but goes on to say that most are so badly worn as to be 'little better than a rotary file'. My optimism is waning a little.. but I love the look of it !..oh hell.

What wears so much that it can't be repaired - the bed ? Surely bearings can be replaced (or is that complete naivety ? ), will gears will be difficult to get if it is them ?.. what do I look for when I view it?

It also shows a few modifications people have done.. I am in 2 minds about that but sentimentality is not for engineering.

 

[Togalosh]

there is a dutch machine on feebay at the moment that will barely make £400 yet it is the dogs doodahs if I had the space I'd buy it myself. Finishes at the crack of dawn tomorrow. It is in Swansea.

Hhhmm?? thanks Wildman.. I hate Ebaying but when needs must.

I can only see a hulk-like Gromatic.. that is a whoppa. I would be sectioned by SWMBO if I brought that home.

 

[chaoticbob]

Evening Gents,

How about a Myford ML4, 70 yrs old, 1 careful hobbyist owner, face plates, chucks, lots of gears n stuff, ...

Hmm, so the lathe's 70 years old, one owner, so s/he's say 90ish? My guess is that that this is a widow selling off late hubby's tools - you may be onto a good thing there, but if my guess is right, she probably isn't really in a position to judge the condition of the machine. As you say, wear is likely to be on the bed (I don't think Myford beds would be hardened back then) and / or on the headstock bearings. Neither would be easy or cheap to correct - the bed would need regrinding and because the headstock would I think have plain (rather than roller) bearings, it's not just a matter of whacking out the bearings and replacing them - you would need to have new bearings made. It might add up to well over the cost of the machine! On the other hand it may be a peach - but personally I wouldn't take the risk unless you are confident that you can assess the machine hands on.
There's no doubt that a good used Harrison, Boxford, whatever outclasses a new import, but again you need to be confident that you can assess the machine. Sometimes people put a lick of paint on so it looks spiffy, but when it comes down to it ... well, you've guessed how I know.
I wouldn't discount the Chinese offerings. My main gripe with my Chinese (Warco) mill, which has a variable speed brushed motor, is that the torque at the lowest advertised speed (50 rpm) is close to zero. I imagine the same is true of similar claims made for small lathes with brushed DC motors, but if you're thinking to make smallish parts that shouldn't be an issue as you'll be spinning them much faster than that.
Sorry if this has turned into a bit of an essay!
I'm drooling over the Dutch lathe, sadly I do have space for it, and it's likely to be a snip, what with all that tooling - - hmm - wife's birthday next week, I was going to get her an iPad, but ... Nah, not going to work is it?
Robin

 

[blackrodd]

there is a dutch machine on feebay at the moment that will barely make £400 yet it is the dogs doodahs if I had the space I'd buy it myself. Finishes at the crack of dawn tomorrow. It is in Swansea.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161947565626? ... EBIDX%3AIT
:shock: :shock:
Rodders

 

[DTR]

Hello Cheshirechappie,

A quick look on lathes UK link shows that there are no parts readily available (no real surprise there as it was made 1937-43 !)..but goes on to say that most are so badly worn as to be 'little better than a rotary file'. My optimism is waning a little.. but I love the look of it !..oh hell.

What wears so much that it can't be repaired - the bed ? Surely bearings can be replaced (or is that complete naivety ? ), will gears will be difficult to get if it is them ?.. what do I look for when I view it?.

I think Tony's assessment of ML4s is a bit unfair. Some members here are probably sick of me waxing lyrical about my ML4, but it really did serve me well. I only sold it because I stumbled upon an ML7 that I couldn't pass up.

Some ML4s had a spindle nose that matches the ML7, so chucks and faceplates are interchangeable. ML7 change gears and their studs are definitely compatible. I've also seen several ML4s fitted with ML7 cross slide feedscrews. To be fair, if you have access to another lathe (or a helpful model engineer) you could probably adapt a lot of ML7 parts to fit.

 

[DTR]

A case in point:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford-ml2-rebuild/

 

[woodpig]

That's a nice looking ML2.

 

[Keith 66]

I was given an ML4 some years ago, its headstock was rattly to say the least, On pulling the spindle out i found it heavily scored & bearing worn badly.
My father in law suggested a novel repair he had learnt when on national service.
I put the spindle in the Super 7 & got rid of the scoring with strips of emery, in the meantime the two knackered bronze bearings were pulled out. These turned out to be in one piece with a longditudinal split down one side to allow a small amount of adjustment. They were degreased & then heated up & a goodly layer of plumbers solder applied to the bores. The high spots were scraped off with a bearing scraper made from an old triangular file & the lot reassembled.
It was run in for a few hours with plenty of oil & much to my surprise turned out to be quite accurate & capable of making parts with a decent finish.
I sold it to a friend with the advice ringing in his ears, "never let the oilers run out!". Five years later it was still running after plenty of use & was then sold on again. The next owner tried turning something far too big for it & broke the headstock casting terminally. Its now a mooring sinker!

 

[Togalosh]

Well Gents, I am the owner of a late model ML4.. & so far I think it's a runner.

The very nice & very knowledgeable man selling it says that it was his Dad's machine that he learnt on & has always been in the family. He now has an ex-school Boxford so needs the space - a great looking one that is too. I asked about wear & I was told that there's very little & that when the Dad had passed away in the early 90's he had the bed professionally re-ground ! The Dad was an engineer & repaired a lead screw's female thread in the tool holding post by using an insert & gave me another insert as a spare. There is no rattling/play when I grabbed & tried to wobble the chuck.. however the motor doesn't sound too happy but it hasn't been used for a year & it doesn't sound terminally ill.

I got 30-45min lathe basics & very specific do's & don'ts. I saw a lead screw he'd turned from a 35-40mm bar (now on an end vice) so I am confident the machine can easily cope with the work I want it for. I can't wait to get it to my workshop & get it installed !

Photo's to follow asap.

 

[blackrodd]

Well done on you're new tool, I'm looking forward to the pics and stuff!
Rodders

 

[DTR]

Congrats

 

[Togalosh]

Well Gents.. here she is :

What do you recon?

 

[blackrodd]

Well, looks OK to me and most if not all the chucks and tools are there too, and it seems bits are adaptable from the ML7, I read.
It's tidier than my Tyzack ML4, I have no wheels or threading capabilities and one bearing cap is cracked But it was next to nothing and got me a start, It became available after I'd bid on unimat SL which as it's smaller I use more.
The main thing is are YOU happy? Are you metal lathe newby or have used them before?
Suggest Check the motor bearings, maybe that's the noise source.
I'll Look out for Showing you're first test piece, Regards Rodders

 

[dickm]

Just missed buying one of those for £12-10s-0d. But that was in 1969.................

Seriously, that looks like a real gem that has been cared for during quite an easy life. But what is the role of that ginormous red handle??

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Togalosh, that looks to be a good 'un. The reground bed is a very good sign, and if the headstock was overhauled at the same time, you have about as near as you can get to a new lathe. One of the pitfalls of lathe buying is that they're of limited use without a range of tooling, but you seem to have the basics - three-jaw self-centering chuck, four-jaw independent (a very versatile piece of kit), steadies, tailstock drill chuck, faceplate, screwcutting change gears, hard and soft centres. All you need are some cutting tools and you're all set.

You probably know this already, but Camden Miniature Steam Services do a very impressive range of books aimed at the model engineer, so if you need a reference book or two, that would be my first port of call.

 

[Togalosh]

Well, looks OK to me and most if not all the chucks and tools are there too, and it seems bits are adaptable from the ML7, I read.
It's tidier than my Tyzack ML4, I have no wheels or threading capabilities and one bearing cap is cracked But it was next to nothing and got me a start, It became available after I'd bid on unimat SL which as it's smaller I use more.
The main thing is are YOU happy? Are you metal lathe newby or have used them before?
Suggest Check the motor bearings, maybe that's the noise source.
I'll Look out for Showing you're first test piece, Regards Rodders

Hiya Rodders, I am chuffed to bits ! my I love old tools, machines ... buildings, things & people (within reason) because they are great quality & stylish. I now know that if what I am doing on it isn't working then it's me - not it. I even like the paint (& nail varnish ?) job.

I am a novice newbie. I used a metal lathe for the 1st time a few weeks ago (for an hour) to turn down an off-cut lead screw for a DIY wagon vice.. hence my starting this thread.

Yes, I suspect the bearings too & might look at them myself but I know a good local firm who could look at it if necessary.. a 70 year old motor !..it was not bolted down when the seller ran it & it was on a loose board.

As for showing you guys what I've made.. hmm.. ok, as long as you promise not to laugh.

 

[Togalosh]

Just missed buying one of those for £12-10s-0d. But that was in 1969.................

Seriously, that looks like a real gem that has been cared for during quite an easy life. But what is the role of that ginormous red handle??

Hiya Dickm, was that expensive in 1969 ? I suspect it wasn't that cheap.

The handwheel was made up to replace the small handle on the very right end.. the seller made it for better control when turning in small increments.

 

[Togalosh]

Togalosh, that looks to be a good 'un. The reground bed is a very good sign, and if the headstock was overhauled at the same time, you have about as near as you can get to a new lathe. One of the pitfalls of lathe buying is that they're of limited use without a range of tooling, but you seem to have the basics - three-jaw self-centering chuck, four-jaw independent (a very versatile piece of kit), steadies, tailstock drill chuck, faceplate, screwcutting change gears, hard and soft centres. All you need are some cutting tools and you're all set.

You probably know this already, but Camden Miniature Steam Services do a very impressive range of books aimed at the model engineer, so if you need a reference book or two, that would be my first port of call.

Hiya CC, there are 6-8 weirdly ground tools in that tray & I was going to visit our resident old genius CDT man upstairs (who has the Clarke lathe) to see what he recommends. He's bound to know all about Myfords (he teaches 6yr olds to weld, turn & make boats, engines, music etc).

All advice is very welcome & appreciated as I know next to nothing but I have Amateur lathe, L. Sparey on order. The seller said it has this ML4 in it's 1st few pages. I will check out Camden MSS.

I have a lot to learn.. pity I am 30yrs too late to have my uncle show me what to do. He & my Grandad were motor racers & engineers.. it's not genetic.

 

[DTR]

[I have Amateur lathe, L. Sparey on order. The seller said it has this ML4 in it's 1st few pages. I will check out Camden MSS.

That's a great book, can't recommend it enough. There's no ML4 in my copy; most of the photos are either an ML7 or a Drummond B-type. Having said that, there's been many printings of that book so things may have changed.

 

[Rhyolith]

+1 for the ML4 beginners club I am the proud owner of DTR's old one which I greatly look forward to setting up in the summer (currently separated from it ).

Myford ML4 by Ryolith, on Flickr