1930s fireplace timber, trying to match

[Rorton]

We bought our 1930s house 11 years ago, and kept the original fire surround.

was looking to make some side tables and wanted to try and match the wood and colour.
is this oak that’s dark stained?

 

[Doug B]

Could do with a close up photo

 

[Rorton]

Yep here goes

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Looks like stained oak with oak veneer.

 

[Rorton]

Ok great thank you. I have some liberon dark oak spirit based wood stain, would that be ok or should I use something different?

 

[profchris]

Try it on a scrap of the wood you intend to use - that's the only way to see how close you are.

Note in particular that stained softwood won't look anything like that oak, and might even be hard to stain without blotching. But other hardwood species will stain differently too. Test for definite!

 

[marcros]

I would fume the oak rather than stain it.

 

[Rorton]

Thanks all. I was going to buy some oak and then stain rather than use softwood. I have some American white and stuck some of this dark stain on, needs another coat and will check in the morning when dry. Not sure if ‘normal’ English oak would stain any differently. I don’t have enough timber on hand to make, so would need to purchase whatever I get.

 

[Rorton]

I would fume the oak rather than stain it.

thanks. I like the look but do t really have the equipment to do it

 

[marcros]

You don't need a huge amount of equipment but you need some outside space and the outside temp at this time of year isn't ideal. Whether it is even suitable is questionable I have only ever done it in late spring or summer.

 

[Cabinetman]

I agree with Marcros that this originally would have been fumed and certainly it would not originally have been American Oak, it’s not the same, and it’s called White Oak for a reason, I’m a little concerned that you have used a dark Oak stain, I always associate that with almost black well certainly darker than what your photographs show. It will be interesting to see the results, please if you could put it on the mantelpiece and photograph the two together. Ian

 

[Mike Jordan]

You can fume with just a plastic bag to contain the item but I don't rate it as controllable for an exact match. If you need an exact side to side match I suggest making the item and then sending for a good French polisher. I've done this when extending an existing kitchen and had perfect results.

 

[Rorton]

Thanks for the replies.

I’ve had a read about the fuming, not sure I want to go there, seems a bit toxic, although pics I’ve seen of the resulting finish do look like the mantle I have.

I’m not after a side by side match, but something that looks sympathetic to what’s in the room, similar grain pattern and colour really.

Here is a sample of oak (I don’t think it’s American white) with 2 coats of the stain.


Not bad, I will put some finish on it when dry. One coat applied last night so had time to dry, the other this morning. Will add a 3rd coat to another piece and see what that’s like.
Looks a bit reddish is comparison to the mantle though

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Given the era in which this was probably made, it's likely to have been mass-produced for a volume market, therefore:

- It's not necessarily quercus robur anyway - probably continental European or American "oak";
- Stain is probably more likely than fuming (which is an unpleasant faff IMHO, the results of which are difficult to 'adjust'/'standardize' across several pieces without resorting to - yup, staining).

I think your test piece looks great!

Cheers, W2S

 

[johnbs]

I'm pretty certain it will be quercus family, but not UK "english" oak. Much of the furniture from the 20's thro to the 40's looked like this, and it's stained, not fumed. Have you considered buying a "matching" sideboard or table from a local charity shop?
John

 

[Rorton]

Hi, thanks for that, yeah, we've had a brief look, but nothing really fits the space, plus I wanted a bit of a new project to work on

Do I need to look for a specific oak if im buying a few boards, do I ask for European/American - some places done specify, just say 'sawn oak boards' like this guy here...

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/332388791520234/?ref=search&referral_code=undefined

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Assuming the original is European oak, then where it grew is immaterial because it will almost certainly be either Quercus robur or Quercus petraea, although there's an extremely slight possibility it might be Q sessiliflora or Q pendunculata. If a buyer comes across a description of oak that includes a place name, such as German, Scottish, English or French preceding the name 'oak' it means only that's where the tree grew, but it will still be one of the species I've listed. The fact that boards from a Quercus robur grown in England might have somewhat different physical characteristics to boards from a Quercus robur grown in Germany is entirely down to different growing conditions, e.g., soil type, climate, open grown, forest grown, altitude, etc. There are several species native to North America that fall into the general categorisation of American white oak, principally Quercus alba, Quercus prinus, etc. For your project Rorton, I'd use whichever of all these oaks that came at an acceptable price because in a finished piece they will all come out as acceptable.

On an unrelated side note, I have come across quite a number of people that swear they can readily distinguish American white oak from European oak just through a superficial inspection, i.e., they just look at it. However, whenever I've had chance to put under their nose a few known (to me) samples of each type, I've never come across anyone that reliably can tell one from the other.

The stain/dye sample is a pretty good match, but it's a little bit red compared to the original. If it's important to you to get a closer match you can reduce the redness by adding a little green dye to the mix. Just make sure you use a dye with the same solvent, which I think, as you say, is white spirit. Check the can of the stuff you already have to find out what the solvent is.

Fuming is a technique I'd avoid, one reason being that you can end up with very different results from one board to another, especially if your oak comes from different trees, which is highly likely if you buy wood from a large pack. And, of course, you need a set-up to do it, ideally including a fume filtering respirator; setting up for fuming is not especially difficult, but maybe more faff than you really want to take on. Slainte.

 

[Cabinetman]

Richard, you are obviously very well-informed and very experienced in this so I hesitate to say this but I have used American oak a couple of times and it seems very different to me to the European oak which I habitually use. I suppose it’s entirely possible that the American oak was a poor sample? Had grown quickly? It felt lighter, appeared to be slightly lighter in colour – mind you European varies a lot in colour, but its main characteristic to me was that it didn’t work the same, didn’t feel as hard, and when hand planed it just wasn’t as nice. Now whether I could pick a piece out and say yes that’s American ? Who knows, you’re probably right.
Where you are you are right of course is the only difference between English oak and European oak is 26 miles of water, the German and French oak is grown almost as a crop.

 

[Rorton]

Sorry, couldn't work out if this was to me, or to Sign Dubh? (My name is Richard, but then I through how would you know?!)

For me, no not experienced at all

Im quite please to be fair with the stain sample, I think I'll get a board of oak locally and have a play. Im toying with the design in sketch up now, and the wife now likes the idea of a drawer in 'for the remote controls' she says - [sigh]

No worries I say, then retreat to the computer to look as some ideas and how to get everything in proportion and not looking like amateur hour

Will start a thread for some design input

 

[Mike Jordan]

While you are on the computer have a look at Wikapedia, you will find that there are more than 500 varieties of oak. After sixty years in the business I can recognise two with certainty - American red -it's rubbish for most uses, and American white - not nice to work but similar in appearance to european oak.
For your proposed use it matters little since staining down to dark brown obscures most of the character anyway. I suggest a small purchase of KD European. Don't be tempted by clowns selling "oak boards" it's very likely to be wet rubbish not even suitable for fencing.