1/4" bandsaw blade troubles

[pike]

Are 1/4" bandsaw blades more fussy to track than wider?

If not I've got problems!

I managed to get it on and use it but after having no bother recently with 1/2 and 3/4" blades, my 1/4" popped off a few times when trying to get it on and one time worked fine then decided to jump off the second time I powered up. If nothing else it seems to be very very sensitive to tracking adjustments.

Maybe after it popping off I've just been too scared to tension as much as I should.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I don't know why it should be so hard to track, but it certainly won't need a lot of tension. There is not so much steel there and so requires less force to tension it correctly.

 

[sunnybob]

If youve gone from 3/4 to 1/4, youre most likely over tensioning it.

Soon as you get it to stay on with the teeth gullets pretty near centre turning by hand, just give it one more turn and start up, making sure all the guides are well away from the blade.

Watch the blade for the flutter test. As soon as the blade stops vibrating sideways, youre there.
make sure you adjust the rear guides close enough that the blade when under pressure doesnt go back too far and the teeth get squeezed between the side guides.

 

[pike]

Thanks both. Sounds like it's probably tension. I've been moving the guides out of the way and using the deflection method. Just getting it so I can't push it much more than 5-10mm with moderate force.

I had started trying the flutter test idea out recently but when it's popping off it puts me off playing with tension while its moving.

I pay absolutely no attention to the tension gauge on my BS400 as its useless.

sunnybob, as I don't use my bandsaw every day, some things I know, haven't actually fully sunk in and become habit. Your comment about making sure the rear guide stops the blade getting pushed back between the side guides was something of a eureka moment for me last week It's cost me a few replacement blades but at least I understand the critical elements now. Just wish it didn't require 3 or 4 different sized allen keys to set. I wonder if you can get adaptors to make them all one size.

 

[sunnybob]

I cant believe how poor blade guides are on most bandsaws.

My axminster 350N has reasonable brass screw thread adjusters on the top guides, but onyl the two sides, the rear is tap and twitch. And the bottom guides are all tap and twitch and have to be loosened, tapped, tightened, loosened, tapped, and on and on. Appalling design.

The forwards / back adjuster on the bottom guide block needs an allen key, except the 2 bolts are recess up and fill with sawdust till you cant get the (multiple expletives deleted) key in.
I've replaced them with 10 mm bolts now.
Lost count of the mods I have had to make to this machine.
BUT.... when a bandsaw works well, its a truly beautiful thing.

 

[pike]

Yep, I love it. Although every time I think I've got it sussed it bites back

Made a crosscut sled and a circle jig lately. I have been unnaturally joyed by cutting round bits of ply.

Kids were well impressed with the old reindeer trick too.

It just challenges my lack of patience sometimes as you have to tick a few boxes before you start cutting.

 

[sunnybob]

I share the roundy round pleasure.
Just made a zero clearance insert for mine from an old nylon bread board. To think how hard that would have been without the jig.

 

[Alexam]

Hiya pike,
As you say, when it works, it's really great but the tuning is 'key' to everything else. My own trials were similar to your own I'm sure, as it was the rear bearing that I always forgot about until I realised that it was the most essential. Side guides are only there to check the side movement, but if the rear bearing has not been set correctly, boy are you in trouble.

From time to time I actually take out the rear bearing and give a good clen where it slots into the machine and that helps when adjusting it. I also hate all the changes of hex nuts, it's so silly not to have made them all the same.

Just make sure that when changing blade sizes, move the side guides and rear bearing well out of the way until you have turned that blade several times by hand whilst 'yweaking the wheel adjuster knob on the back. Then try it under poswert whenyou think it's right and before you move the guides and bearin back in place. Although it takes time, you soon get used to it and making notes of the position of the wheel knob with each thickness of blade may help.

The tension guide, as you know is only a rough guide, but the flutter tests will help For checking the tension of your blade - A Flutter test Video's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chyo9chuwJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZuDosSy0

Keep up the good work.

Malcolm

 

[dickm]

Am I just lucky, or has bandsaw design gone backwards? Have a decades old 352, pop any blade between 1/4in and 5/8in on, turn by hand a few times just to be sure it's tracking right, tension fully, nip up the guides and start cutting. Seems incredibly easy, or am l missing something?

 

[Alexam]

No. You just have that magic ingredient ..............Knowledge and experience.

 

[pike]

And better guides?

 

[Austinisgreat]

Am I just lucky, or has bandsaw design gone backwards? Have a decades old 352, pop any blade between 1/4in and 5/8in on, turn by hand a few times just to be sure it's tracking right, tension fully, nip up the guides and start cutting. Seems incredibly easy, or am l missing something?

A better designed and made Startrite bandsaw.

Simples

8)

 

[sunnybob]

"nip up the guides" is the steepest learning curve in bandsaw land.

 

[pike]

I had another try today with not good results.

I have found that with the 1/4" inch blade on (haven't gone back to try a wider one again yet but will do), the tracking is almost impossible.

Twisting the tracking knob is far too sensitive. Nothing happens then eventually suddenly a small turn sends the blade from the back to the front of the wheel. Then trying to adjust it slightly the other way, nothing at all until finally i hit the point where it is moving the wheel and it swings right back the other way. So quarter turns, nothing, then when I get to the point where it makes the blade track, it becomes too hard to fine tune.

Worse than that though, I've found that releasing the quick tension then putting it back on again causes a previously tracked blade to decide to move lots again. To the point where it wouldve come off had I not stopped the machine. Surely I don't need to track again when using the quick release?

I've also noticed that if the blade is in the middle of the top wheel, it is fairly near the front of the bottom, so all this tracking sensitivity is likely to pop it off.

I don't know if I'm just not very good at this but it seems to me the machine is making it difficult at the very least.

In addition to this, I know the tension gauge is not meant to be that useful but mine is off the top of the scale for tensioning even a 1/4". I'm pretty sure I'm not over tensioning as I've tried the deflection test and the flutter (going just past the point of flutter).

I've contacted Record hoping they might know what's going on. The only thing I feel like I can do now is try another blade.

 

[CHJ]

Do you have a lot of play in the top wheel support mechanism with the blade off?
Does the top wheel have a lot of end play along the top support shaft.?

Is it the wheel moving along its pivot axis when you take the support axle either above or bellow horizontal?

In exaggerated form is the wheel sliding along the shaft or the whole mechanism loose allowing the top wheel to 'snap' over centre.

 

[pike]

Hi Chas, thanks for the questions. I'm struggling to understand or explain exactly where the looseness is but..

I've taken the blade off. Using both hands there doesn't seem to be a problem with the wheel moving along it's axle. In other words, pulling it evenly towards me, it doesn't seem to move.

However, the whole wheel is very loose if I just try to waggle it around. If that makes sense! I don't know how loose it should be.

The bottom wheel certainly seems to have far less play.

Carl

 

[pike]

I can't hear what this guy is saying but the loose wheel he shows seems to be what I've got.

https://youtu.be/dCdrBGN3GVk?t=12

 

[pike]

I've tried a 3/4" blade and it's less troublesome but I'm still thinking something isn't right. The quick release cam appeared to effect tension and tracking slightly. Maybe that's acceptable? Seems to defeat the purpose though.

I feel as if something is wrong with tension as I tighten up it appears to stop fluttering, then I tightened a little more and the flutter was worse..

Bad blade? Bad user? Bad saw? I just don't know.

The shaft (or axle) I notice I can pull in and out about 10mm. Don't know if that's normal. The whole sliding block that the axle fits in is free to move around about 5mm in every direction with the tension assembly. Again don't know if that is ok.

Once the wheel is back on and a blade tensioned the wheel all feels ok and stable.

 

[pops92]

Clutching at straws here guy's but is there a possibility of a stripped thread on either the male or female part.
Just a thought. :?:

 

[pike]

I wouldn't be surprised but I'm not sure how to tell. Can't see how the spindle/shaft thing comes off the block, assuming it does.