Startrite 352 upper blade guide/support

[Oaktree11]

Hi all,

This is an ofshoot of my other post here about the 352 I just bought.

I confess up front to being a bandsaw virgin an know little about the 352 but I am learning. You can see the upper blade guide in the pics. Its not standard I guess, does anyone recognise it? the only markings on it can be seen in one of the pics, and basically says TAIWAN and a number which is probably a casting number.
I am not sure how the rear support works. It seems that the back of the blade bears on the side of a bearing?
Any help from those of you more experienced is welcome, thanks

John

 

[flh801978]

Yes the rear blade support is the side of a bearing....very common either that way round or against the edge.I would guess that its not a standard startrite fitment if its marked "taiwan" but it looks well made
Ian

 

[RobinBHM]

The rear bearing is there to stop the blade being pushed back when pressure is applied to the work being pushed through.

The rear bearing should not touch the blade when the machine is running, only when cutting. You may find the rear bearing needs to be moved back when fitting a new blade. this allows the blade to find its natural position, then adjust the rear bearing until it is a touch away from the rear. Note that some blades may wobble forward and back as the machine gets up to speed so the real check is once the blade has settled at running speed.

Best of luck with your new bandsaw. Once fettled you will have a machine that will work very well for many years.

Bandsaws are frustrating machines, dont get put off if it doesnt work perfectly straight away!

 

[Oaktree11]

Robin BHM, thanks for the useful and thoughtful post. This is my first bandsaw and i followed the general advice on this site and resisted buying a new clone. I am a competent engineer and am looking forward to making something of this. However, your note of caution is understood!
John

 

[RobinBHM]

Ive just reread my post -I am not implying that you should adjust the rear bearing whilst running! please dont...

I have found with bandsaws that the tyres sometimes wear or compress so when getting anold bandsaw it is worth checking the runout ot the face of the tyre. If there is some, that will cause the blade to wobble. If you have enough tyre thickness it can be made perfectly concentric on the machine by rigging up a jig. Ive done it before with a shaped block and abrasvie paper and just turning by hand.

Work though setting up in a methodical order as one thing may influence the next.

Ignore any advise to position the gullet over the front of the wheel, have the blade running in the middle of the wheels. Some bandsaws have flat wheels, Ive never been able to understand how they can ever track, crowned seems more logical. I dont know what the correct amount of crown should be. When I reshaped some wheels recently I worked on the basis that the crown should be the same as though the wheel would be a sphere and therefore used the wheel radius as the crown radius.

 

[MikeJhn]

I can never get over the use of the face of a bearing to support the blade, IMO it goes against all engineering principles, the touching surface's are both going in the wrong direction, at the top going right and at the bottom going left, I can only think that an accountant got involved when they designed the bearing supports and insisted they designed (oxymoron) it the easiest way, far too difficult to put the bearing the right way around and make it adjustable, so many bandsaws are made like this, and too think we still accept rubbing blocks on some machines. :roll:

Mike

 

[paulm]

The "rubbing blocks" on my startrite that you disparage Mike are in fact highly effective and simple and elegant engineering at it's best, wouldn't even consider changing them, but each to their own of course

 

[Alexam]

Hi John and welcome to the forum.

Bandsaws are really useful and you will have fun using it, but as a Virgin, you do need to know how to get the best from it.

Steve Maskery has very good DVD's that will show you everything that will make life easy when using your bandsaw and tuning it up. Also the video by Alex Snodgrass will help you enormously, so see the attached, but unless you have a small bandsaw, you do not need to remove the table as the video shows. I never remove mine.

THE BEST FROM A BANDSAW 'Alex Snodgrass of Carter Industries has an excellent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU on a tune up method that works well, but if you want to get the best use of your bandsaw on an ongoing basis, then the Steve Maskery DVD's will show you far more and they are a real investment. http://www.workshopessentials.com/shop/ '.

For checking the tension of your blade - A Flutter test Video's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chyo9chuwJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZuDosSy0

Malcolm

 

[MikeJhn]

The "rubbing blocks" on my startrite that you disparage Mike are in fact highly effective and simple and elegant engineering at it's best, wouldn't even consider changing them, but each to their own of course

A moving surface against a solid non moving service I would not call elegant engineering, but as you say each to their own.

Mike

 

[Lons]

The "rubbing blocks" on my startrite that you disparage Mike are in fact highly effective and simple and elegant engineering at it's best, wouldn't even consider changing them, but each to their own of course

A moving surface against a solid non moving service I would not call elegant engineering, but as you say each to their own.

Mike

Not elegant Mike but works very well and like paul I won't be changing mine anytime soon. I did consider it after reading Steves' (excellent) thread but then thought why change something that already works well for me. Simple is best as far as I'm concerned and if it ain't broke why fix it?

Bob

 

[MikeJhn]

We could carry on this discussion on rubbing blocks for some time, and I could give all kinds of engineering principles that show that a moving surface against a non moving surface will just wear away the softer surface, cause friction/heat on the harder surface which in turn uses power, anyone with any type of engineering background will say the same, its the principle that I am disparaging, not picking on any one manufacturer, as I said in my first post concerning this issue, its a cheap alternative to a correctly engineered solution.

Mike

 

[woodpig]

I can never get over the use of the face of a bearing to support the blade, IMO it goes against all engineering principles, the touching surface's are both going in the wrong direction, at the top going right and at the bottom going left, I can only think that an accountant got involved when they designed the bearing supports and insisted they designed (oxymoron) it the easiest way, far too difficult to put the bearing the right way around and make it adjustable, so many bandsaws are made like this, and too think we still accept rubbing blocks on some machines. :roll:

Mike

I agree completely Mike and you only have to look at the state of some of these bearings that have been in use for a while to see how bad it is. Sadly some folks just don't get it though. Including the wooden bandsaw guy who did a ridiculous "test" to prove his point. :roll: The obvious reason as to why some makers do it though is because its just cheaper and easier to make them that way. Its good to see that suppliers like Startrite, Axminster and Warco supply machines with decent guides on them.

 

[Beau]

The "rubbing blocks" on my startrite that you disparage Mike are in fact highly effective and simple and elegant engineering at it's best, wouldn't even consider changing them, but each to their own of course

A moving surface against a solid non moving service I would not call elegant engineering, but as you say each to their own.

Mike

Not elegant Mike but works very well and like paul I won't be changing mine anytime soon. I did consider it after reading Steves' (excellent) thread but then thought why change something that already works well for me. Simple is best as far as I'm concerned and if it ain't broke why fix it?

Bob

Big fan of rubbing blocks here. Had 3 bandsaws in my time. Started with a Kity that had wooden rubbing blocks. Easy to adjust very precise and free to replace. A rubbing block tends to shed dust as it comes round on the blades. Then had an expensive Griggio with bearings that run against the sides and the back. These soon wore and then could never set up well. Then an old Wadkin with knackered guides. Chose these from Carter and have never looked back http://www.carterproducts.com/band-saw- ... n-model-20

 

[MikeJhn]

Carter also make a properly designed engineered solution: http://www.carterproducts.com/band-saw- ... rsion-kits

Mike

 

[Alexam]

Carter also make a properly designed engineered solution: http://www.carterproducts.com/band-saw- ... rsion-kits

Mike

Good stuff, but by the time you add import duty, tax and shipping, the cost is high.

Malcolm

 

[woodpig]

This shows how well they work. I suspect the back of the blade gullet is also on the centre line on the upper wheel as per his usual advice. :wink:

https://youtu.be/w_tv7cm0-VU

 

[MikeJhn]

I know he knows what he is doing, but I did worry for his thumb on the re-saw, it looked so close. =D>

Mike

 

[woodpig]

Hard to be sure but I think he tucked his thumb in Mike!

 

[MikeJhn]

Or he has cut it off already. #-o

Mike

 

[Oaktree11]

Thanks for all the Help guys.
Alexam, special thanks for pointing in the direction of the instructional vids...more money spent!
As regards the blade support, What I have is wood blocks on the lower and what I have shown in the photos on the upper. The upper ones look decently engineered, I dont much like the style of the rear one but I think my plan is to get the machine up and running (another saga - looks like I am back to plan A, inverter control) then set it up systematically and thoroughly and try it for a while and let it settle. Once I know enough to be certain I can start making changes if needed.
John