Router Collets - now SUCCESS! (+ UKW tribute)

[AES]

OK, OK, I know, I shouldn't have bought a cheapo, no-name Router, and I suspect my "Matrix" (Germany) 1200 Watt Router is actually a(nother) bit of badge engineering! Nevertheless at just 10% (really) of the cost of a Festool, it had to be worth a punt, I thought .....

The bit shaft dia which this Router collet accepts is 12 mm according to the spec sheet, and the bits that came with the Router kit do all have a nominal shaft dia of 12 mm (actually a whisker less, as you'd expect).

My issue is that the collet does not appear to open up far enough to accept half inch (12.7 mm) bit shafts - the internal "gripping vice" of the collet appears (repeat appears) to locate into a groove machined within the "upper" inner face of the outer "nut" and no way will that groove allow the chuck to open far enough to accept a 12.7 mm shaft.

I know little about Router collets but with "normal engineering" collet chucks (as used on an engineering lathe for example) it is quite normal for any particular size of collet to have a dia range of + 1mm above nominal size, sometimes even a little more. Are Router collet chucks different, or is my Matrix collet either "broken" or NBG?

My reason for asking is that, for example, Wealden have bits with several different diameters within their various ranges but there is NO range with 12 mm dias, just half inch. I now have one of their half inch bits and want to use it in my Matrix Router but as above, it definitely does not seem to fit.

I have been in touch with Matrix via their website, but unsurprisingly, they are of no help at all - I have the feeling that they set up to get someone in China or somewhere to make a gazillion-off of a certain tool, sell 'em all, and then that's it, finito, on to some other tool.

So I've been looking at other Routers in retailers here (Dewalt, Bosch, and Festool so far) with my Matrix collet outer nut in my hand to see if any of those collets would be compatible with my Matrix. That way, I could buy a spare collet from one of those ranges and off I'd go. So far no luck, but I have yet to try Metabo, Makita, Trend, and Triton, plus here (Switzerland), there's also AEG - anyone heard of that brand BTW?

Just for info, the thread of the Matrix collet appears to be a nominal 20 mm crest dia x 1.0 mm pitch, 60 degrees, as measured on the main shaft of the machine (i.e. a non-standard Metric thread according to all my tables).

The websites of all the above Router manufacturers show only the bit shaft dia that their collets will accept, not the thread info, so I guess I'm left with wandering around all the retailers trying my collet on their various shafts - UNLESS anyone here can tell me otherwise please???

A final Q if I may, related to the above - all the Router brands I tried here so far (Dewalt, Bosch, and Festool) all have collets marked as 12 mm, NOT as 12.7 mm, and indeed, most of the router bits one sees here are 12 mm (or less), NOT half inch shaft dia. But half inch bits are sometimes available here (and as above, many are available on line from several sources). So do the above collets marked as 12 mm capacity actually expand to accept half inch shafts - in other words, is my problem really just that my Matrix collet is NBG?

Thanks in advance for any pointers - it will be clear from the above that I'm paddling (drowning) in unknown waters here!

Any comments/advice welcomed.

AES

New post with Collet pix & dims below (6th April).
AES

 

[marcros]

I was always warned not to mix 6mm and quarter inch and 12mm and half inch because the wrong one may seem to fit but would not be gripped correctly. So I would assume that there is almost no tollerance within the chuck unlike an engineering chuck. In the uk I am not aware if 12mm cutters, at least not readily available. The chances are that you can get a replacement chuck for the router from trend, amongst others but identifying which one will fit may not be easy or possible.

 

[iNewbie]

A final Q if I may, related to the above - all the Router brands I tried here so far (Dewalt, Bosch, and Festool) all have collets marked as 12 mm, NOT as 12.7 mm, and indeed, most of the router bits one sees here are 12 mm (or less), NOT half inch shaft dia. But half inch bits are sometimes available here (and as above, many are available on line from several sources). So do the above collets marked as 12 mm capacity actually expand to accept half inch shafts - in other words, is my problem really just that my Matrix collet is NBG?

I dont have the answer to your other questions. If you look here you'll see for a Festool 1400 model you can buy collets in 12 and 12.7mm/1/2"

Collets

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi AES
I don't think that you will successfully hold a 1/2" cutter in a 12mm collet, there just isn't that much play.

Here in the UK we piggy in the middle, half European, half American. Most stuff is metric but routers are always (ish) 1/4" and 1/2". Oh yes, or 8mm. Go figure.

I'm not familiar with your brand, but if you post a picture of your collet, perhaps someone will recognise it.

 

[GLFaria]

A 12mm collet shouldn't accept a 1/2" shaft. A 1/2" collet shouldn't grip a 12mm shaft.
A gripping range of about 1mm is not acceptable - if a collet does stand it, you should bin it (the collet, I mean)

 

[AES]

Gents,

Thanks very much to all three of you for very helpful and quick replies. Now I know more than I did before (not hard!), most particularly that Router collets do not have the shaft dia holding tolerance that "engineering" collets normally have, and therefore my Matrix collet is not NBG (it holds the supplied 12 mm bits very well).

So now since Matrix Germany are unable/unwilling to even discuss my little problem usefully, it's also clear that I must find a half inch compatible collet from another manufacturer such as Trend, as Marcos suggested.

That's clearly not going to be so easy, but tomorrow I'll post a pic of the Matrix collet together with dimensions in the hope that some kind soul on here will be able to reduce the amount of aimless wandering around Router retailers that I'll be in for otherwise.

Once again , thanks for all the very quick and helpful replies, this Forum has once again (and as ever) come up trumps.

Krgds
AES

Edit:
QUOTE:
Thanks very much to all three of you for very helpful and quick replies
UNQUOTE:

The above should of course read all FOUR of you, my apologies (the red wine with dinner tonight seems to have been a bit more potent than usual!).
AES

 

[AES]

As per Steve Maskery's suggestion (above), herewith pix, just in case anyone can help with identifying what “name brand” Router Collet could be compatible with this "no name":

The Router itself.

Now the Collet itself (what I call the "nut" first, then what I call the "vice" - i.e. the inner part that does all the gripping work).

The dimensions are as follows:

Thread dia (crest, measured off the main shaft) = 19.61 mm (i.e. 20 mm nominal) x 1.00 mm pitch x 60 degree angle. As noted, according to all the Metric thread tables I have, this is not an ISO standard thread. Strange, or perhaps not?

Thread length (measured ditto above) = 4.07 mm

Nut (across spanner flats) = 23.69 mm (i.e. 24 mm)
Nut "height" = 20.01 mm
Vice "height" = 22.16 mm

Please note that the "vice" portion is only 2 mm odd longer/higher than the "nut", in marked contrast to other collets I've seen so far, which all seem to have much "longer/higher" "vice" parts - i.e. more going down into the inner main shaft. The vice portion does NOT seem to be able to be removed from the "nut".

As before, any steers will be most welcome.

TIA
AES

 

[Steve Maskery]

The inner part (what you call the vice) is usually called the collet. The outer part is the collet nut. The collet might be held in by a spring clip. The festool ones are like that.

I'm sorry that I don't recognise that particular one.

 

[AES]

Thanks for helping me with the nomenclature anyway Steve.

AES

 

[AES]

And after a good look with a bright light and magnifying glass Steve I think you're right, the collet seems to be retained by some sort of a ring. No idea how to get it out though, for example I don't see 2 little eyes like on a circlip, or no angled ends like on a car piston ring.

Thanks though, I'm off to the shops on a Router Collet hunt tomorrow ("Oberfraser spannzange" :roll: ).

AES

 

[Steve Maskery]

They probably just pull apart, but you will have to overcome the pressure of the spring. It will sit in two grooves, one in the nut, the other in the collet. And you will also have to be careful not to damage the collet with the pliers as you do so.

 

[AES]

Thanks again Steve, but unless (until?) I get desperate I don't think I'll even try - the gap between the outer wall of the collet & inner wall of the nut is VERY small, and there doesn't seem to be anything to grip hold of anyway - nothing that even my fine snipe nose pliers will grip.

No matter, off to the shops (there's worse things than looking at tool shops)!

Krgds
AES

 

[n0legs]

I think I found a 1/2" collet/collet nut for it, I can't be 100% sure as there's only 1 photo.
Check it out here :-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bigger-Saving-R ... B00JE2MW0G

 

[AES]

Now that is BRILLIANT n0legs, thanks a lot. It looks exactly correct in the pic but the only way to find out is to take a punt of course. At 20 quid I'll try it (now ordered), and will advise results.

Ta ever so - this Forum is really helpful - never fails.

AES

 

[Steve Maskery]

But check that it includes the collet, the picture says it's the collet nut...

 

[RogerP]

Same item on eBay with 2 pictures

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REPLACEMENT-R ... 4ac0c848a9

 

[Steve Maskery]

Looks like you are sorted, matey.

 

[AES]

Will do, thanks Steve. Ordering now and will call them (good old Skype).

AES

 

[AES]

From the E-bay 2nd pic it looks like it does include the collet as well as the nut itself (see Steve, I've got the names right now )!

As Amazon UK are easier to contact that someone on E-bay I'll try them first, just to make sure.

Will advise after it (the Amazon or the E-bay version) arrives here (should be about a week).

Once again VERY many thanks to all for all the help.

Krgds
AES

 

[AES]

"OK, OK" (!) as well as being pretty ignorant on all sorts of matters woodworking (but I AM learning, thanks to all you members) I'm also a bit of a technological Luddite when it comes to stuff like E-bay, PayPal, etc.

What I thought would be an easy 10 mins on line ordering that collet that n0legs and RogerP linked to this morning (thanks again folks) actually ended up taking over 3 hours of increasing frustration - with an unsuccessful result as it turned out!

Long story short, the collet as advertised by Amazon UK is not being sold by them, it's being sold by someone else, and Amazon are simply carrying that other sellers advert (I didn't know they did that).

As a result I was forced to go to that sellers website via E-bay, and from that it seemed that in order to buy I 1st had to open an E-bay account. That I did (after a lot of hassle about my chosen password being too "weak"), and eventually I got a confirmation E-mail from E-bay saying I could go ahead and buy.

But I was unable to buy as for some reason E-bay wouldn't let me log on - several times - and of course, being E-bay I couldn't find out any way to contact the seller direct!

But eventually I was able to get direct to the seller's website on line, and was even able to order the collet. Great! But when I came to pay it seems that this particular seller will not send to Switzerland (or it seems anywhere else "overseas")! So the transaction didn't complete. (So why bother with a website and E-bay I ask myself)?

Anyway, someone living in UK is now buying it for me (I hope it's bought and on its way to him by now) and when it arrives in UK it will bed sent on to me.

People often say "don't bother with cheapo tools" but you couldn't make this "carp" up could you?

None of the above reflects at all on the help you UKW blokes have freely given of course, and as above, I HAVE learnt some stuff from you all =D> - plus learnt some other stuff that I really didn't want to know but somehow always suspected (hammer)

I'll let you know what happens when (should I say "IF"?) the new collet turns up here.

Krgds
AES