Restoring dark Ercol table to natural wood

[KatieFrith]

Hi,

I'm a novice to woodworking/restoration so apologies if these questions seem naive.

I recently bought a second hand Ercol table and chairs set - small rectangular drop leaf table and four goldsmith windsor chairs. They are made of elm I believe and are stained dark.

I would like to remove the dark stain and restore the furniture to its natural wood state. My plan is to hire a small sander to remove the stain, and then I will oil the furniture afterwards. I know the chairs will be fiddly so will start with the table and see how it turns out.

Does this seem like a sensible way to go about such a job? I know some people would use chemical strippers, but I am wary of damaging the wood.

Thanks in advance
Katie

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I suspect you will find it difficult to remove the colour, as it probably is not only a coloured finish but the wood is probably dyed underneath it. You could try rubbing through an inconspicuous place, underneath maybe, and see how deep the colour is.

 

[KatieFrith]

Thanks Phil. Yes, I think I will try a test patch first. The furniture has seen some wear and tear, and there are areas where that has exposed the natural wood, so hopefully it is possible...

 

[ED65]

My plan is to hire a small sander to remove the stain

Apologies, but this is a really bad plan if you're new to sanding Katie.

Sanding off old finish is usually a lot more effort than guides online suggest, and anyway all good finishing books agree chemical stripping is a much better way to remove old finish. Some will even go so far as to say that sanding should be never be used to remove old finish.

Because of recent changes in what's permitted in strippers (due to mothering EU regs) they're not as aggressive as they used to be but much safer for the casual user. They work more slowly but should still get the work done if you follow the instructions closely. If you don't mind fumes and want something more aggressive an alternative is buying a 5L jug of a solvent directly from a chemical supplier for a very reasonable sum and a few of these ship throughout the UK without P&P. You should be able to get something that'll soften and remove whatever finish this is, be it a varnish or a lacquer.

There's a small chance this is finished in shellac, if so you'd only need meths to get it off which is readily available in all DIY centres etc.

 

[KatieFrith]

Thanks ed65. If I used a stripper would I need to sand afterwards.?

I'm looking for a finish to bring the grain out, similar to the table top on this page

http://homesweethomestore.co.uk/shop/er ... f-table-2/

 

[ED65]

If I used a stripper would I need to sand afterwards.?

Sometimes you need to smooth the wood after stripping yes, depends a little on the stripper and its instructions. Some commercial strippers require washing down afterwards with water to neutralise remaining traces and water will usually raise the grain to some degree.

Raised grain requires minimal sanding to remove and can be done (should be done in fact) manually. Just a few passes with 180-220 grit should be enough, you're seeking to remove only the swollen grain and nothing else.

I'm looking for a finish to bring the grain out, similar to the table top on this page

http://homesweethomestore.co.uk/shop/er ... f-table-2/

I'd say there's a very good chance that wasn't just oiled. That pronounced emphasis of the grain isn't natural to the wood, so some type of staining was used in the finishing process (with the excess wiped off very well while the stain was wet or stained, left to dry and then the surface lightly sanded off, leaving stain in the grain. Then the final finish would be applied.

Were you intending your table to be a user? Oiling is a good, easy-to-do, non-toxic finish for pieces where looks are the main aim but it doesn't impart a lot of protection to wood unfortunately. For a table intended to take drinks glasses etc. and to withstand scuffs and scrapes from regular use I'd want to use varnish myself.

 

[Jake]

You can still buy dichloro based stripper without proving industrial user status, as there are various online places which sell 5l cans of adhesive label remover which is apparently not a use controlled in the same way, but it is, remarkably, exactly the same thing. It isn't nice stuff though, but is very effective.

 

[rob.]

Is there a chance that this table may have a dark grain filler? I stripped an oak table a few years back with nitromores but it wouldn't touch the grain filler, it looked awful and took a huge amount of work to set right.
Also, because the table was built with staining in mind they didn't really care too much about matching the colour of the wood they used.
I seem to remember it was really hard work, even with chemicals.

 

[rob.]

 

[ED65]

You can still buy dichloro based stripper without proving industrial user status, as there are various online places which sell 5l cans of adhesive label remover which is apparently not a use controlled in the same way, but it is, remarkably, exactly the same thing. It isn't nice stuff though, but is very effective.

Good to know Jake, thanks. Now if I could only locate somewhere that sells label remover locally!

I was reading something on the "non toxic" strippers, those that usually come in plastic bottles instead of in tins, and they do work just as well despite many bad reports. Apparently a lot of the frustrations are to do with users unrealistically expecting them to work in the same timeframe as the pongy type.

 

[ED65]

Is there a chance that this table may have a dark grain filler? I stripped an oak table a few years back with nitromores but it wouldn't touch the grain filler

That might be an oil stain, they can be a right PITA to deal with when they're old. They become much more resistant to solvents and sitting below the main surface as they do in deep grain like this makes it all the harder for any stripping agents to get at.

For a top or large flat areas I'd try scraping, but I'd probably end up resorting to planing off a layer to get back to fresh wood.

 

[rob.]

I resorted to scrubbing with thinners and a stiff brush, it simply wouldn't shift.

For stripper I can recommend talking to these guys.

http://www.stripperspaintremovers.com/

 

[ED65]

Thinners isn't enough to tackle cured oil or a varnish mixture, they become completely insoluble in their original solvent given enough time which is why we can get away with cleaning off wax polish with copious amounts of white spirit if the finish needs a top up.

 

[A_Kempy]

Hi Katie, I’ve just found your discussion as I search for the best way to strip two ercol quaker chairs back to their original wood - they are dark stained/varnished - in just wondering if you had any luck, and what method/product you used in the end? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

 

[Turnr77]

Don't think you'll get an answer as Katie hasn't visited the board since 2016.

 

[TheHarebell]

Hi,

My experience - sanding is the best way. The stripper removes the varnish, but makes the stain even harder to remove. It takes the same time if you sand the piece with sander. But if the stain is still in the grains you could do nothing, maybe you could lighten it a little with bleach /which will remove any stain dust after sanding/

The legs are wooden but the seat is usually veneer and you can`t sand deeply

 

[ED65]

Bleach will only have an effect if the stain or tinted finish was coloured with dyes. Pigmented finishes are usually unaffected by bleach because pigments are by and large stable, unreactive compounds (this is exactly why they're used). Most of the pigments used in wood finishes are iron oxides, because they're available in a useful range of wood-like colours, and they're particularly stable.

If there's dark finish or stain lodged in the grain often the only way to get rid of it without removing excessive amounts of wood is with a wire brush, sometimes used with stripper or a solvent, to physically dislodge it. The job is just as excruciatingly tedious as it sounds.

 

[Leif]

I know this is an old thread. However …

Up to ~2000 Ercol used nitrocellulose lacquer. The quickest and cleanest way to remove it is with a cabinet scraper, followed by a light sanding. Stripper is messy and costly. Currently Ercol use a water based acrylic lacquer, which is rather tough. It can be scrapped off, or stripped. Sanding it is not easy. It is possible they have used more than one formulation over the years.

As for stained Ercol items, yes when you remove the top stain you’ll discover that the wood is often darker than usual, and/or with dark grain. I find it looks rather nice. Removing dark stain is a pig, I’ve done several chairs. It takes ages if you want a good job, but most people seem to leave some stain behind. I don’t like that look, but you may disagree. Removing stain from all of the wood pores is very hard, and also from around joints eg where spindles join the seat. To remove stained finish, sanding is one way, blasting with fine powder is another, but careful, some blasting can remove/destroy wood. My choice would be to pay a respected powder blaster to remove the finish.