Recomendation/s wanted please - SMALL sound recorder

[AES]

Good morning,

I know there are several accomplished musicians here, so hope someone can help with the following:

As I don't read music very well (I'm trying to improve!), I need a small music recorder for my choir sessions, especially for when we're learning new stuff.

As above, it must be small (pocket sized), battery-powered (dry cell or rechargeable, I don't mind), self-contained (no separate mic), and must be capable of picking up everything, even when placed, for example, on the floor under my chair. HiFi quality is NOT needed, I just need to learn my parts.

It should also be capable of recording for up to about 2 hours at once, and then afterwards enable me to edit the "raw" result, leaving me with just the bits that I need (Bass, Tenor) - though these will all be sung separately separate (i.e. at the start of learning a new song we usually sing our separate voice parts separately, led by the teacher on piano, then we put all parts together later on. I do NOT expect to be able to pick my parts out of a recording of 30 or so complete voices!).

I don't mind down loading the raw recording onto my PC (Win 7) to edit it, but please note I do not have any editing software on my PC right now - editing BTW will for me mean simply deleting the parts such as Soprano that I don't need - no enhancements, or anything needed.

I once had a fairly small cassette recorder with Record, Delete FF, etc, functions, but I guess that these days, even if I could find empty cassette tapes (?), some sort of solid state device would be better than cassette. Anyway, that cassette recorder has disappeared?

OH, I almost forgot, the whole lot must be cheap as chips.

Any pointers most welcome, TIA

AES

 

[marcros]

a smartphone app?

 

[MrTeroo]

Is £77 cheap as chips to you?

https://www.andertons.co.uk/tascam-...MImui92aeO2AIVxrDtCh2GhQBzEAQYBCABEgJ9M_D_BwE


It probably comes with some software, but Audacity is good and free to download if not.


http://www.audacityteam.org/

 

[Brandlin]

There will be others with more knowledge along in a moment i think, but i have dabbled in some audio.

I think your biggest challenge would be your requirement on location of the recorder. It is going to make an enormous difference not only to the quality of the sound but how much background noise you pick up.

Have you tried just using a smart phone set to record? this may be enough to get you started. If you already have one then thats your free option.

I'd also ask the choir if they mind you recording - you might find that a number of others would want the recording and then there would be no problem in putting the device out in front where the sound field would be much improved.

There is a lot of free audio editing software available. most of it will be a lot more complex than your needs which seem to be just to cut sections of music. I've used Audacity http://www.audacityteam.org and its good. but there is a lot of choice.

 

[thick_mike]

Good morning,

I know there are several accomplished musicians here, so hope someone can help with the following:

As I don't read music very well (I'm trying to improve!), I need a small music recorder for my choir sessions, especially for when we're learning new stuff.

As above, it must be small (pocket sized), battery-powered (dry cell or rechargeable, I don't mind), self-contained (no separate mic), and must be capable of picking up everything, even when placed, for example, on the floor under my chair. HiFi quality is NOT needed, I just need to learn my parts.

It should also be capable of recording for up to about 2 hours at once, and then afterwards enable me to edit the "raw" result, leaving me with just the bits that I need (Bass, Tenor) - though these will all be sung separately separate (i.e. at the start of learning a new song we usually sing our separate voice parts separately, led by the teacher on piano, then we put all parts together later on. I do NOT expect to be able to pick my parts out of a recording of 30 or so complete voices!).

I don't mind down loading the raw recording onto my PC (Win 7) to edit it, but please note I do not have any editing software on my PC right now - editing BTW will for me mean simply deleting the parts such as Soprano that I don't need - no enhancements, or anything needed.

I once had a fairly small cassette recorder with Record, Delete FF, etc, functions, but I guess that these days, even if I could find empty cassette tapes (?), some sort of solid state device would be better than cassette. Anyway, that cassette recorder has disappeared?

OH, I almost forgot, the whole lot must be cheap as chips.

Any pointers most welcome, TIA

AES

Do you own a smart phone?

Most have a voice recording app.

 

[Farmer Giles]

Sounds like any smart phone should do that with a reasonable memory card. Alternatively search for tascam digital recorder and you should be able to get a nice one for not too much, they also have guitar trainers with microphones built in that are very cool and will do the same job, so any of those second hand.

 

[AndyT]

I think Marcros is right. You'd want to be able to connect an external mic which could be a limiting factor but I don't think you'd need any sort of phone contract. An old model from the back of someone's drawer would do.

Edit: I was concentrating too much on cheapness. Something like the gadget Mr Teroo showed looks much better. A specialist appliance, not a general purpose solution full of options and compromises.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Hi - I spent about £50 on an Olympus Voice Recorder - sounds exactly like the sort of gadget you're after. I would highly recommend one.

Sensitive, long recording time, small and integrated, download to PC via USB or MicroSD card - reasonable sound quality (adjustable, based on quality vs. recording time/format options). Useable for voice and/or music.

Cheers, W2S

If you Google "Olymus Voice Recorder" you get things like this:

Olympus WS-852 MP3 Digital Stereo Voice Recorder

 

[AES]

Thanks for all the advice folks.

In my OP I forgot to say that I don't have a smart phone, and really do NOT want one (I've had enormous problems with the touch screen on EVERY one I've tried - including some other touch screens).

I digress here but actually I DO have a smart phone - a fairly old Blackberry, with proper keys for typing with! Problem is, in their infinite "wisdom" all our providers have decided they will no longer support BB - so my smart phone is now limited to making & receiving calls n SMS' only. Luddite me, but at least BB DOES work for me!

Back to the original point - thanks for all the suggestions. I'll think about it, but it seems I'm limited to downloading some software to do the limited editing I need. I think I've heard about Audacity before. I'l do some more Googling too.

BTW I already have an Olympus voice recorder and have used for choir that up to now (in business I used to use that - with headset - for making notes while I was inspecting aeroplanes). The only problem with that (quality is NOT important, really, and it did well, despite background aircraft noise) is that it records as single chunk files which I've been unable to break up for editing (it seems Olympus has it's own file format). But sitting on the floor it does pick up everything in choir OK.

Thanks again to all.

AES

 

[Brandlin]

I dont understand what you mean by "limited to downloading some software" for audio editing.... i@m not sure how you expect to do it without some software you dont already have.

As to the olympus recording format - do you know what it is? I highly doubt it is proprietary to the point it cant be edited. after all its just a file full of zero's and one's

 

[AndyT]

The file format may be ok - a quick search shows some Olympus devices use wma and some have a wav option - but it seems that some models don't have a usb interface so copying files across is not feasible.
I suggest you really don't want to have to connect the Olympus headphone jack to your soundcard and play back audio in real time - the only alternative cludge - not when simpler options are available.

Edit: this discussion confirms that some Olympus recorders do use an odd format - but if you can get the file to your PC you CAN convert it for editing.
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 13&t=56842

If you have not used Audacity, stand by to be impressed.

 

[AES]

Once again, many thanks to all. And I apologize for not being clear enough - you can tell straight away that I'm padding in waters that I don't understand (hammer)

By using the term "edit" I meant simply cutting bits out - e.g. a full recording of a choir practice session may well contain little bits of talk & chat, plus of course, the parts (like Alto & Soprano) that I don't need. Back in "the good old days" of my cassette recorder I'd simply use the Delete button to cut those bits out of the complete cassette. That's all I meant by "edit", though it would of course have been good to re-record the whole thing so that I ended up with a tape which contained only the bits I needed (e.g. a 2nd recorder which I didn't have). So sorry if by using terms like editing and software I was setting a red herring.

My Olympus voice recorder does in fact include an integral but removable sold state memory stick which I can plug direct into a USB port on my laptop PC. That's what I've been doing up to now. The only problem has been that having loaded the contents onto the PC I can't do anything with it apart from play it through the PC speakers, or delete the COMPLETE file, i.e. the "good"- the wanted bits AND the "bad" - the unwanted bits all at once - there is no way to split the file up.

So based on what you're all saying I guess I should continue using the Olympus for the actual recording - on the built-in mic the quality is perfectly adequate to hear what I need to hear. Then I simply need some software like the Audacity mentioned to cut out the unwanted bits. In my OP I was hoping to find some device instead of my present Olympus to cut out that interim PC "editing" step to end up with just what I need.

BTW, my Olympus uses a file format called WMA, but although the existing software on my PC will play those files OK, (MS Media Player) it doesn't allow any cutting or re-recording of those files.

In short then, due to ignorance on my part, it seems my OP was asking the wrong question, sorry all.

I'll look into that Audacity and see if it allows me to do what I need - my basic reluctance is that it always takes me yonks to learn how to use a new piece of software properly - and before you ask, NO, I have rarely found ANY software which is truly intuitive! AND it NEVER comes with a Manual, AND the built in help very often doesn't!

"Onwards and upwards"

Thanks, and sorry again

AES

 

[MusicMan]

When the OP speaks about "cutting out the parts he does not want, eg alto and soprano", that is definitely not possible using smartphones or any of the cheap recorders. It is only possible if the tracks for alto, soprano etc are separately recorded with separate microphones. This means a multi-channel recorder, which a smartphone is not; it is only one channel. But If it is a matter of listening to the altos separately from the basses, for example, choral conductors use their ears and training for that . But if he means cutting out the bits where he is rehearsing the altos separately, of course that is easy.

Two channels is easy enough, as you can use any stereo recorder. I have a small Edirol which is pretty good quality for that. Recording is digital of course and it's easy to put into a PC via a USB port. More than that and you are into significant money, eg about £300 for an 8-track (plus one microphone per track), plus significant technical knowledge needed in setting it all up.

yes some simple editing software is needed, and I also use Audacity. Very easy to top and tail, adjust levels etc for the simple things, and more if you want it. I used it once to filter out an embarrassing squeak on a clarinet performance I did.

There is much fancier software available, if you want for example to change the intonation of a flat entry ... but this becomes serious money and serious training. Recently I went to a lecture from a senior BBC engineer, who wanted to remove the noise of 15,000 screaming teenagers on the only recording of the Beatles live at their Hollywood Bowl concert. He managed it, but it was very difficult maths, audio theory and a fair dollop of high level sorcery.

 

[MrTeroo]

Although he does say each part will be sung independently at the beginning.

.....and then afterwards enable me to edit the "raw" result, leaving me with just the bits that I need (Bass, Tenor) - though these will all be sung separately separate (i.e. at the start of learning a new song we usually sing our separate voice parts separately, led by the teacher on piano, then we put all parts together later on. I do NOT expect to be able to pick my parts out of a recording of 30 or so complete voices!).

 

[MusicMan]

Yes, I think I over-thought it! thanks

Keith

 

[Fidget]

Get yourself a Zoom H1 here

https://www.gear4music.com/Recordin...gDDeCWeoqilfUPxej_xw8No7MHyaLTExoC_j4QAvD_BwE

£69 which is cheap! It's very easy to download files from this onto your computer with a USB cable

Download Audacity, as others have said and install it on your computer. Editing couldn't be easier, select the portion you want to delete with the mouse and hit delete. There are lots of You Tube videos of how to use it.

You will need to download an MP3 DLL file as well (Audacity will help here) if you want to export the resulting file as an MP3 for listening on other players

Edit: I meant to say that this is what I do for a living!

 

[AES]

Thanks Music Man. It seems that yet again I was not clear enough.

In brief, "the order of service" when we learn a new piece is normally:

1. The teacher plays the main melody, perhaps singing along with him/herself, and those that can read music try to follow along (not singing, just listening) - as said, I'm trying hard to improve my very basic music reading skills, but it's slow going.

2. Then the teacher plays the various parts separately, and the relevant group sings along, with the teacher's corrections, as they go. So if it's a 4 parts song (e.g. Bass, Tenor, Alto, Soprano) then it's 4 separate "tracks" on my single track Olympus, + the original main melody of course. Then after those say 4 main parts, perhaps the teacher will rehearse say 2 of the groups together. It's too disturbing to be always turning the recorder on and off for the bits that I do and don't want.

So of all those, all I want in the end (to be able to practice alone at home) is my relevant part/s, plus the main melody of course.

So just as you said, QUOTE: But if he means cutting out the bits where he is rehearsing the altos separately, of course that is easy. UNQUOTE:

So as said, it looks like I'm going to have to learn to play with some new software. Thanks for the steer about Audacity. I'll try it.

Thanks again all.

AES

 

[MrTeroo]

Another free editor that is quite good is NCH Wavepad

http://www.nch.com.au/wavepad/index.html

 

[AES]

OK, noted, thanks Mr. Teroo.

AES

 

[petermillard]

I have the Tascam DR-05, it works well but I find the menu system almost impenetrable - I keep the manual handy; the Zoom H1 has many of the same functions as hardware switches, so restricting for some (on/off) but straightforward.

I’d prefer a smartphone app any day as I find the software generally much more straightforward, but each to their own.

I thoroughly recommend Audacity. It’s not pretty, but works well and does the job fine; simple edits (deleting the bits you don’t want) is as simple as highlighting it on a time-line and hitting delete. It does so much more than this, of course, but use as much or as little of it as you need. FWIW I use Audacity to record the voiceovers for my videos.

Cheers, P