Today's Booty

[Richard T]

We had to take a long magical mystery tour to avoid people running with torches today. Roads in both Solihull and Stratford were closed so we had to go via motor way.

But when we got there there was much to be had.
A two speed egg beater:

Anyone know the maker?

A Record 1" vice screw

And a corner clamp, smith - made pincers and some Eclipse hacksaw blades.

Some tapered 3/8" twist bits, an unused 9/16" centre bit, a NYC made adjustable spanner (genuine monkey wrench I guess) and a short bit.

But the star of the show, for me at least because I've been looking for so long, is this paring chisel.
I didn't think this would come out in the photo as I can hardly see it by eye but here it is - Ward.

The only down side is that someone has thoughtfully put a back bevel on it. :evil: More work for the diamond stone later.

 

[Scouse]

Nice little haul of toys to play with! All rained off for the fourth week on the trot up here; I'm running out of tools to fix up and might actually have to do some woodwork if the weather doesn't get any better! :lol:

 

[No skills]

Thats a good/useful haul rather than the usual "might come in handy" efforts

 

[AndyT]

For the Fleetway make, the ever useful Grace's guide shows a complicated history, but they seem to have been / become part of the same group as Atco and Qualcast, eventually being absorbed into the Blue Circle group

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Fleetway_Manufacturing_Co
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Qualcast

Fleetway and Qualcast in the same company and same ad here:

- if you can make castings for a mower or a mangle then a drill is easy peasy!

 

[Richard T]

Yeh Scouse, we have had three rained off before today. So I was not going to be thwarted by a little thing like the Olympics.

NS: what you say made me think of how many handtools I've bought new _ I can think of seven. The rest are inherited, home made or from ten years or so of going to this market. I always try to only get things I need, although some how I have ended up with three #78s

That's amazing Andy. Might have known you'd have the bumpf. I haven't tried the wheel brace yet but it runs true empty; seems like it could be very good.

 

[jimi43]

Definitely worth the trip Richard...and that WARD chisel is beautiful...

I think WARD and WARD & PAYNE come close to my love of I.SORBY...but W&P definitely have the edge ( ) when it comes to the heavy stuff like axes. Bill Carter got me stuck down that road I'm afraid!

As for getting stuff you want vs what you might need...I tend to fall in the second camp. Today I used a Sandvik spiral bit I picked up last year for the first time...brand new in a box and it fair cut like a knife through butter in some green chestnut!

We didn't have the usual Sunday fair today as some old git called Bob Dylan was appearing nearby! How very DARE he!

But Pete Gabriel was also performing and I thought of speaking to him about his great, great....etc...grandpa! 8)

Jim

 

[DTR]

Nice haul Richard. How wide is the chisel? I am intrigued by the vice screw; I never realised Record made stand-alone screws without a vice wrapped around them.

Here's my baggings:

Small hatchet / axe (?), no discernible maker's name, £3
Record 042 shoulder plane, £18
Two Moore & Wright micrometers, one imperial one metric, £5
The wine box they are sitting in was bought by Doris for a pound

I'm particularly happy with the mics. They are both very free moving and zero perfectly, more so than my modern Oxford equivalents. I haven't quite got my head around the Record yet; the mouth seems impossibly tight.

Finally I bought this..... for a pound :mrgreen:

The blade is 9 1/2" long. The maker's name I can't quite make out. Unfortunately it looks like someone has attacked the top with a grinder, however the cutting edge is still sharp and is like a mirror

 

[jimi43]

WOW DTR...that is some haul!

The drawknife is I think...ATKIN & SONS...and very old indeed! That is the find of the day!

I was using my old Greaves today...wonderful tools. I stone mine using a very coarse torpedo stone and then a fine one and finish off with a diamond stone to just hone it and put a slight back bevel on it (a tip from Douglas!)

The Record shoulder is a real bargain as is the hatchet!

Nice one mate!

Jim

 

[Richard T]

Yes Dave - very good indeed. The chisel is 1" wide and will go very nicely along side the one I found a while ago that is 3/4". Now I just need a narrow one and I think my "set" of chisels is complete. Oh, no, wait - haven't got a corner chisel yet. #-o

I've yet to see a shoulder plane at our market. You say the mouth is tight? How tight? Could be a good thing?

Everybody needs a drawknife - have you got a shave horse to go with it though? If not, a great project.

 

[No skills]

Buy what you need V buy what you might need... I am very guilty of buying things I might need (have a garage full) - I have to hold my hand up to that Anybody with Richards will power is doing well. Luckly I dont get to any bootfairs or the house would be full as well... err... even fuller??

 

[Vann]

...although some how I have ended up with three #78s

Yebbit everybody has three #78 don't they?

First you buy a nice Stanley #78; then you acquire a WS/Woden #78 'cause they've got two arms; then you NEED a Record #778 'cause they've got two arms AND screw depth adjustment...

Cheers, Vann.

Oops, sorry, hi-jack over

 

[Richard T]

Vann

" First you buy a nice Stanley #78; then you acquire a WS/Woden #78 'cause they've got two arms; then you NEED a Record #778 'cause they've got two arms AND screw depth adjustment... "

You're right - but not the right way round - I did buy the nice Stanley first. For £14. It has its one barred fence and depth stop. Then I bought the Record because it had the potential for the two arms (has yet to acquire them) and finally the Woden because I was just in the habit. it has neither.

 

[DTR]

I've yet to see a shoulder plane at our market. You say the mouth is tight? How tight? Could be a good thing?

The shoulder plane was a first for me too. I think I'll make a separate thread on the mouth issue later.

Everybody needs a drawknife - have you got a shave horse to go with it though? If not, a great project.

Yes, quite. This would be my second though. I think I'll keep my smaller Hibernia and sell this one. I just couldn't pass it by at a pound! No shaving horse, and more worrying is that I don't think there's room for one either

I'm glad to say I don't have the same problem with 78s, I've just got a single 778. But somehow I've managed to acquire three wooden skew rebates Well they do make good "bookends" for a row of hollows and rounds!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Richard - thar paring chisel is a beauty.

There's a diagram in the 2nd edition of the Benjamin Seaton Tool Chest book (page 66) that shows the blade, shoulder and tang shape of English chisels for the past two centuries or so. From that, it suggests that one dates from the mid 19th century onwards. We also know that the thin-bladed flat paring chisel shape gave way to the new-fangled thicker bladed bevelled-edged chisels from about the 1880's onwards, so I reckon that one is about 1850 - 1890. Give or take a bit. That means it will be of crucible cast steel - the alloy steels were just starting to be developed around the 1880's onwards. It'll take a edge like a razor.

 

[Richard T]

That's interesting CC ... if only the rest of the marks were visible - I can only just see "WARD" as it is.
I've flattened the back now and put an edge on it. I'll post some pics later if I can find me camera.

 

[Corneel]

Just curious: how thin is such an old pairing chisel? When do they stop being pairing chisels and turn into firmers?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Just curious: how thin is such an old pairing chisel? When do they stop being pairing chisels and turn into firmers?

Mine (by I Sorby, and of similar vintage to Richard's) is a 1 1/2" (38mm) wide, and tapers from 3.5mm thick at the tang to 2mm thick at the cutting edge.

Interesting question about when does a paring chisel become a firmer. The 'firmers' in the Benjamin Seaton chest (1797) would be considered thin by today's standards. A more modern (ha! about 1900) registered firmer would be anything between about 4mm and 10mm thick, depending on width. Arguably, a 'bench firmer' would be at the thinner end of that, and a 'regisered firmer' (usually found with a strengthening hoop on the mallet end of the handle) would be at the thicker end.

That said, I'm not sure that there is a definitive 'right' answer to that question.

 

[AndyT]

I could be wrong, but I thought that the distinguishing characteristic of a paring chisel is its length, with the blade on a paring chisel being as long as the whole blade+handle of an ordinary bench chisel. The point of having the extra length is to enable you to use your shoulder to help push the handle, while one hand holds the handle and the other guides the blade.

Once you've decided that the chisel will only be pushed by hand like this, it is no longer necessary to make it robust enough to be hit with a mallet, so the thin blade becomes possible. That makes the finished tool lighter and more manipulable for fine, exact work, such as a pattern maker would do.

 

[Richard T]

Here is that taper:

Seems quite thin enough to not mistake it for any other purpose of chisel - except someone has; the handle is quite bashed at the back. (hammer) I don't know whether to take it back to sound wood or make it a new handle. I would like to given the time. It's Oak and I would prefer some thing different.

It is lovely steel.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Andy

I have a 3/8 inch Woodcock chisel that is 4.5mm at the tang and 2.2 at the end, it must have been a paring chisel but it is only 10 inches long.
I have a 1 inch woodcock pairing chisel that looks very similar to it that is 5.5mm at the tang and 3.1mm at the sharp end and about 14 1/2 inches long.

So you might have to use a combination of blade thickness and length.

Pete