Re-handling ward mortice chisels?

[Jacob]

.....
... if they are any good!

I don't see why not. Similar to a mitreing guillotine but with a narrow straight vertical cut instead of a sideways slice.
I've only ever seen one in a museum, not in action.

 

[marcros]

ironically, i was watching a few on ebay not sell weeks ago, now when I might be prepared to buy one they have all disappeared!

 

[DTR]

I mortise using the method Paul Sellers uses here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPBkO2chZxk

Except the bit where he chases the work around the vice, which quite frankly I find mind boggling. I quite cleverly put a device on my bench called a "top", it's brilliant for preventing the downward movement of stuff. Nonetheless, it is a very quick method. And like Cheshirechappie I leave a small buffer zone at each end of the mortise until last.

 

[Jacob]

I mortise using the method Paul Sellers uses here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPBkO2chZxk

Except the bit where he chases the work around the vice, which quite frankly I find mind boggling. I quite cleverly put a device on my bench called a "top", it's brilliant for preventing the downward movement of stuff. Nonetheless, it is a very quick method. And like Cheshirechappie I leave a small buffer zone at each end of the mortise until last.

Agree about the "top" :lol:
I was surprised to see him doing it with a bevel edge chisel, not even a firmer.
He'd be a lot quicker with a mortice chisel and a big mallet!
Hmm, not all that impressed by his whole process. And surprised - he's normally a very practical chap.

PS Hmm mystery solved? If you must use a bevel edge chisel then Sellers' procedure is what you'd have to do more or less. But Klausz in his video (link somewhere above) also pokes about as though he is using a light chisel.
Could it be that neither of these chaps have learned to appreciate the good old pig sticker, which entails a very different approach i.e. whack it hard, keep it vertical, face forwards?
That could be it. I didn't know either, until someone showed me how. I probably would never have found out on my own.

PS you can't "whack hard, keep vertical" with a light chisel as it'd be nailed into the wood and difficult to extract; you have to scratch about. But a mortice chisel has the deep wedge and tapered sides, to make removal easier.

 

[kirkpoore1]

I mortise using the method Paul Sellers uses here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPBkO2chZxk

Except the bit where he chases the work around the vice, which quite frankly I find mind boggling. I quite cleverly put a device on my bench called a "top", it's brilliant for preventing the downward movement of stuff. Nonetheless, it is a very quick method. And like Cheshirechappie I leave a small buffer zone at each end of the mortise until last.

Good video. I usually chop mortises in my vise, but I put a piece of scrap below the work to keep it from falling into the vise during the chopping. One good thing the video emphasizes is how the bevel on the chisel drives the chisel sideways, freeing up the chopped out chip. I do think that holding the chisel vertical gets you deeper, faster, and you can see whether you've tilted the chisel to one side or the other easier, so you don't go off course.

Personally, I use a round carving mallet. It doesn't hurt my hand as much if it caroms off when I don't hit the chisel square.

Kirk

 

[matmac]

Thing with Seller's is you never get to see his joints close up :/ he didn't chisel the shoulder on the tennons, he left it off the saw. Not really a quality finish but then it was only a demonstration and it was very quick for just using a bevel edge chisel.
Matt

 

[kirkpoore1]

Thing with Seller's is you never get to see his joints close up :/ he didn't chisel the shoulder on the tennons, he left it off the saw. Not really a quality finish but then it was only a demonstration and it was very quick for just using a bevel edge chisel.
Matt

Yes, well, the distance can hide a multitude of sins. Now, when he was cutting the tenon shoulders with the saw, it looked like he could be undercutting them slightly. If so, you don't need to get in there with a chisel to do a cleanup.

Kirk

 

[Jacob]

Thing with Seller's is you never get to see his joints close up ......
Matt

Nor Krausz - but when you do see them they aren't very good.

...... One good thing the video emphasizes is how the bevel on the chisel drives the chisel sideways, freeing up the chopped out chip. ......

Same difference - if you drive the chisel vertically the bevel moves the waste, but an OBM mortice chisel has a bigger bevel and moves it more.

I'm intrigued by Sellers using a bevel edge chisel for morticing as it sees to be the least appropriate chisel. Firmer would be better, mortice chisel even better and much faster.
Maybe he just doesn't "know" about mortice chisels?
But then you look at the Klausz video - he actually has a mortice chisel but pokes about with it in much the same way as Sellers. So Klausz doesn't know either? And a lot of other people also don't know?
This seems far fetched, they are both far more experienced woodworkers than me (I guess).
But then I myself wouldn't "know" how to use a mortice chisel if I hadn't be told.
Told off in fact, for poking about in Seller's/Krausz's style!! And I probably would never have found out on my own - it doesn't seem to be written about.
Next time I'm in North wales I'll drop in and give him a demo.

 

[AndyT]

Wandering back onto one of this thread's several sub-topics, Jacob said of mortices:

"They used to whack them out at high speed too, in the old days."

Following a tip from Alf I recently bought a copy of the reprint of Volume 1 of The Woodworker, from 1901-2. In it, there is a somewhat tetchy discussion about the best way to cut mortices, which includes this statement/boast:

"I was taught as a boy to mortise in this way, and as no machine was available at that time, I had plenty of practice, which so far made me perfect, that I have scores of times mortised a pair of 4½ ins x 1½ ins panel door stiles (ten mortises) in half an hour and done them sufficiently correctly that no clearing out was needed - and this at the age of 16 years."

Even allowing for some artistic licence or selective memory of distant youth, that is impressively fast!

 

[Jacob]

Wandering back onto one of this thread's several sub-topics, Jacob said of mortices:

"They used to whack them out at high speed too, in the old days."

Following a tip from Alf I recently bought a copy of the reprint of Volume 1 of The Woodworker, from 1901-2. In it, there is a somewhat tetchy discussion about the best way to cut mortices, which includes this statement/boast:

"I was taught as a boy to mortise in this way, and as no machine was available at that time, I had plenty of practice, which so far made me perfect, that I have scores of times mortised a pair of 4½ ins x 1½ ins panel door stiles (ten mortises) in half an hour and done them sufficiently correctly that no clearing out was needed - and this at the age of 16 years."

Even allowing for some artistic licence or selective memory of distant youth, that is impressively fast!

Well yes, but time was money and they worked their nuts off. 2 hours perhaps!
OK so we don't need to do the same but it still helps to know the fastest and hence most efficient way to do these things.

 

[GazPal]

Wandering back onto one of this thread's several sub-topics, Jacob said of mortices:

"They used to whack them out at high speed too, in the old days."

Following a tip from Alf I recently bought a copy of the reprint of Volume 1 of The Woodworker, from 1901-2. In it, there is a somewhat tetchy discussion about the best way to cut mortices, which includes this statement/boast:

"I was taught as a boy to mortise in this way, and as no machine was available at that time, I had plenty of practice, which so far made me perfect, that I have scores of times mortised a pair of 4½ ins x 1½ ins panel door stiles (ten mortises) in half an hour and done them sufficiently correctly that no clearing out was needed - and this at the age of 16 years."

Even allowing for some artistic licence or selective memory of distant youth, that is impressively fast!

Time is money and we tend to adopt the quickest means of working accurately and cleanly, but speed only comes with practise. :wink: