A complete noob

[7omkin]

Hi Guys,

A complete noob here, no solid knowledge of woodworking but am really interested in it as a hobby (did some wood work during my engineering degree and loved it )

After loitering around the forum for few months, i thougts it is time to take the plunge, so seeking advice here, hope you guys can help me.

I am planning to make a shed in my garden and I would like to use it as a wood workshop as well. I have 16' of width to play with.

1. What should be the accptable size of the workshop for small to medium projects ?
2. Will wooden shed be OK for a workshop ? How solid does the base need to be ?
3. Assuming its 10' X 16' (or bigger), would I need planning permission of any sort. And how high can I go ?

Regards,
tomkin

 

[Mattty]

Welcome.

All you need to know workshop planning wise is in here-
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=35073
Size wise the bigger the better- it's that simple. Put in as strong a floor as you can- personally i'd go for concrete, it supports any machinery a lot better than timber, though strong timber floors can be made.

Plenty of pictures please!

 

[Shultzy]

Welcome tomkin, check out the workshop builds in the Projects section, plenty of tips there.

 

[7omkin]

Thanks Matty and Shultzy, I have read some of the threads in the section you suggested, Shultzy your shed looks great

Ok won't bother you with more questions the plan of the shed. Can you please tell me what are the standard length of timber I can get.

The longest I saw was 3.6 m in B&Q are there any larger lengths I can get, so that i keep the cost of the shed down.

Regards,
Tomkin

 

[BMac]

Hi Tomkin,

I went down the same road as you and built a 12' x 8' shed at my last house. It was a great job and I was really thrilled with myself. Then I discovered that if I had prepared a concrete base I could have had the same shed delivered and built for less than half of what mine cost me and to the same standard of quality.

Maybe you want the pleasure of doing it yourself but, if it's just a shed for doing something else in, it might be worth checking out the manufacturers.

Brendan

 

[7omkin]

Thanks Brendan thanks for you response,

1. Was 12' X 8' enough for your needs ?

2. I am planning to make a concrete base, I am really conscious of the cost so would go for the cheaper option, I always assumed, build it yourself (and buying the timber) is cheaper.

Can you please share what did it cost you, and what other cheaper products you found ?

Regards,
Tomkin.

 

[BMac]

Tomkin,

The shed was 12' x 8' because that was the space I had to fit it in. I would like to have built it bigger but that was impossible the way things were. The end cost was something around £1300 doing it myself and calling in a couple of mates when needed. That was 22 years ago! At that time I could have had an equivalent shed delivered and erected for about £500. That looked like a lot of money when I priced timber at £120 for one lot and £280 for another but, it all added up because I didn't prepare properly, I was too enthusiastic about doing it myself and I underestimated the prices of sheet materials, felt, bitumen, etc. Then stuff I never considered the cost of like nails, screws, hinges, locks, glass etc added another big bill. All in all I made a complete b@lls of the pricing but I really enjoyed myself and was very proud of the shed because it was my first ever big build.

Recently I was talking to a mate who was going to build a shed and then priced a sectional shed that is delivered and built on a concrete base. He reckoned it would cost just over half as much as it would take for him to build it himself. I can't remember the exact size and prices he quoted so I'm not going to make some up but I became interested because I am thinking of some developments here. I will probably see this guy on Saturday (if I don't I'll call him) and get some more info for you - you'll hardly have a shed up by then (but, maybe you're a fast mover).

I am in NI but prices shouldn't be that much different.

What size to build? Someone here gave a super answer to that - build the shed twice as big as you think you'll want and it will be half as big as you need. :lol:

Brendan

 

[MickCheese]

One of the problems with an off the shelf shed is it will tend to be made from 2"X1" and be fine for storing tools and garden furniture. If you want warmth and a certain amount of noise suppression then you need to go larger for the studs to get a decent amount of insulation into the frame.

Remember on top of the cost of the shed you need to factor in insulation, internal cladding, electrics and groundworks.

My wife works from home from a workshop in the garden and has done for many years so each house move has always been associated with a new workshop. She has a log cabin at present.

The best off the shelf workshop we bought many years ago was almost double the cheapest we could have bought at the time. I don't know if I could have built one for the same cost but fitting out these buildings has always been expensive on top of the cost of the workshop and the groundworks.

So my advice if you intend to use it frequently and want one off the shelf is don't go for the cheapest, it will be rubbish. Shop around, look for quality then decide how much you could save over doing one yourself.

Regards

Mick

 

[Shultzy]

I agree Mick, Tomkin needs to compare like with like. I think the minimum amount of insulation is 4"(100mm) thus requiring 4"x2" studding. To get a shed like that it would have to be bespoke. My w/shop build has pricing info which is probably only a year out of date.

 

[BMac]

Those are good points. I didn't insulate my shed because I wasn't going to be working in it in winter, just needed a place for a workbench for DIY and storage.

Comparing like-for-like is important because you need to go to see the sectional sheds as they sometimes bear little resemblance to the photos on websites and magazines. The sheds I was told about are good quality and not like some you could poke your finger through and the guy who told me about them is an engineer (you know what they are like) so quality is an important issue. If he said the sheds were good I would be confident they are. However, I will still wait to see his before I decide to buy.

I wish I had been the guy who thought of putting more glass in the front of a shed, quadrupling the price and calling it a 'garden room'.

Brendan

 

[7omkin]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I have finally decided to build it (cost was a major consideration)

Been looking at other shed projects as well and they are highly impressive, but exceed my budget.

My shed will be dual purpose,

a. Storage of furniture when house is been refurbished, extension built.
b. Move all the stuff out and conver it in to a wood working work shop.

I am going to do it in 2 stages.

1. Get the outside bit done (may be flooring as well)
2. Get the electrics done (provide for that in 1st stage)
3. Once all the stuff moves out then start on internal insulation and other finishing stuff.


Now guys, I have to start costing it,

Will buying standard lengths of timber advisable and then basing my design acording to that or

Desing my shed and timber standard lengths dont matter.

Will I need to do all the shed (the basic structure) in treated timber or I have choice to use cheaper timber ?

Have decided to buy a 7 1/2" circular saw for the purpose, hope it will help in making the shed.

Regards,
Tomkin

 

[devonwoody]

Thanks Matty and Shultzy, I have read some of the threads in the section you suggested, Shultzy your shed looks great

Ok won't bother you with more questions the plan of the shed. Can you please tell me what are the standard length of timber I can get.

The longest I saw was 3.6 m in B&Q are there any larger lengths I can get, so that i keep the cost of the shed down.

Regards,
Tomkin

B & whatsit, would be the last place I would buy timber for a shed.
Tell us what area you live in and I am sure you will get some timber suppliers recommended by others here.

 

[Shultzy]

Tomkin, I built my shed in panels which make it easier to manhandle, and to work out the timber sizes. Work out the number and lengths of timber you need, then convert this to the timber lengths you can buy. I think random lengths are cheaper per foot. Don't forget the short leftover lengths can be used for the noggins.

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks Matty and Shultzy, I have read some of the threads in the section you suggested, Shultzy your shed looks great

Ok won't bother you with more questions the plan of the shed. Can you please tell me what are the standard length of timber I can get.

The longest I saw was 3.6 m in B&Q are there any larger lengths I can get, so that i keep the cost of the shed down.

Regards,
Tomkin

Hi Tom.

Welcome to the fascinating world of woodwork and to the forum.

Timber is as long as the tree it comes from allows; but it isn't always supplied that long!

I try to keep my projects to dimensions my workshop can manage, and I buy timber that my tools and machinery can handle. In my case that's twelve feet long at most. (The planks that is). Generally, the thicker the planks you buy from a timber mill, the dearer per cubic foot you'll pay. Get them as wide as you can.

So far, I've been able to get timber that is long enough. As I work in old money, I try to get planks that are 12 feet long. Makes it easy for my brain to work out cubic feet!

I'm not being facetious mind; just telling it like I see it.

Finally;

Keep the timber as long as possible for as long as possible!
Measure twice, cut once.
Keep your tools sharp and you'll be well on your way!

Happy New year

John :lol:

 

[MickCheese]

I agree with Shultzy. Base your plans around sheet boards either imperial or metric but don't mix them.

Mick

 

[eggflan]

Just to throw another idea into the mix , have you thought about a sectional concrete garage :?:

Some years ago when we bought this house as a doer upper i needed somewhere to work so put a nice big concrete slab at the bottom of the garden , i then started looking for sheds , i was searching on ebay when i noticed that a sectional garage would be cheaper than building and a lot quicker .

I found a concrete garage on ebay with a brick rendered finish so it looks like real bricks from about 10ft away , it was 30 miles away and needed taking down (which me and the wife did) the roof was rotten so this was replaced with new after i re-assembled it in my garden .

It looks good is very secure and cosy now ive got some insulation in it and the best bit is it only cost me £100 plus a new roof and transport costs to collect .. All in including the floor slab and roof i reckon i got change from £500 and only took 2 days to rebuild it up ...

Have a look and see if anyone local wants one taken down , they sometimes come up on freecycle , you just have to remove them yourself ..

 

[7omkin]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the responses.

I have planned my workshop on the Shultzy's design with a concrete base .

here is the estimate for a 4 m X 3 m shed.

I have planned for 3 trusses, will that be enough ???

Please let me know your views guys.

Need to start clearing the hedge at the back now, I am hoping its not stubborn.

 

[7omkin]

Guys any comments on my estimates ??

will 2" X 3" be good enough for the stud work ??


In the meantime, managed to cut the hedge down, now time to take out the tree stumps next weekend.

Will take the pics and post next time.

 

[BMac]

Tomkin,

Now that you have a rough base figure it might be worth searching for heavy duty sheds online to compare your specs against theirs. I was having a look myself and saw sheds/workshops clad with 26mm t&g, pressure treated and coming with a 10 year guarantee (whatever that's worth) for less than your costs. There were some log cabins coming in around the same price. As mentioned before, you would need to go see the sheds before buying (or not) but it might be worth your while.

I was talking to my mate tonight. He is getting a 16' x 10' workshop, 26mm t&g etc for £840. Now, he has to insulate and secure it after that but it's still a good deal.

(I am stating 26mm t&g but I might mean 25mm)

Brendan

 

[devonwoody]

B mac, £860, that a good price, anyone know of anything like that for England?