External door panel held in with beads?

[Doug71]

I am making an external door to match these https://www.xljoinery.co.uk/DGOXG-44-Pr ... lear-Glass

The panel on these is held in with a bead just like the dg unit above it. It doesn't seem like proper joinery beading it in instead of putting it in a groove, is it destined to fail if I bead it in?

Door will be made of emeri/idigbo, not my favourite and not used it much so don't know how much it moves around etc?

Thanks in advance, Doug

 

[Trevanion]

The panel on these is held in with a bead just like the dg unit above it. It doesn't seem like proper joinery beading it in instead of putting it in a groove, is it destined to fail if I bead it in?

Grooves can actually be worse off for external joinery than beads. The water runs down the panel and sits in the groove if not absolutely 100% sealed and rots the bottom rail and tenons of the door out if there is no way for the water to escape. Plus it makes glue ups more awkward and you DO NOT want any glue near where the panels are, as it will stop the natural expansion and contraction of the panel and it will split straight down the middle.

I tend to do the same procedure as I would with a DG unit. The panel has about 3- 4mm clearance all round and is painted before putting into the door, I silicone the panel in place and fill around the panel with more silicone before nailing the beads on. Silicone allows the panel to move with seasonal change (That has been proven this summer!) and keeps the water from getting in behind the panel. I tend to use a Scotia or Ovolo style bead with the panels. I've never had any fail.

An alternative way I do it when I'm having to use larger protruding mouldings around the panels on either side for historical doors and I need a good fixing, I leave the panel section of the door square until it's been all glued up and I will run a router with a 10x10mm groove cutter around the middle of the panel space. This allows me to nail some 10mm x 30mm square stock (my panels tend to be a hair less than 10mm on the thinnest point) into the grooves which stick out 20mm from the groove creating a rebate for either side of the door. The beads are rebated so that they rest on the face of the door and onto the square stock that has been placed into the door and stick about 10mm or more past the square stock creating a rebate for the panel to sit against, I then mitre, glue and nail the internal beads into place. Once the glue has dried I silicone the panel (Which is a hair thinner than the thickness of the 10mm square stock to allow it to move freely) into the rebate now made by the beading and nail the external beads on identically to the internal side. This allows the panel to float freely whilst allowing you to use the large mouldings without directly mounting them to the panel which restricts the float.

 

[MikeG.]

Trevanion has it absolutely right, and to illustrate his point, I once (naiively) made a door with an rebate on the internal side of the panel, and beads on the inside. The reverse of the usual arrangement. Despite the best sealing I could manage, and multiple later repairs, it always leaked water down the inside face of the door. There is a route through for water doing it that way, whereas if you do it the mirror of that, with an upstand on the inside face of the panel and a bead on the outside face), the route for water that gets in between the glazing and the bead is down the outside face of the door.

 

[Doug71]

Thanks for the advice guys, Trevanion I like how you prepare the panels for larger mouldings, I will be copying that in future.

Unfortunately the bought in doors are ready glazed and the Low-E glass side is the beaded side so will need to be internal.

To be honest I think whatever I do will be better then the bought in doors, they are dowelled and veneered and going from previous experience they will have failing joints and peeling veneer within 2 years!

Doug

 

[Beau]

Door will be made of emeri/idigbo, not my favourite and not used it much so don't know how much it moves around etc?

Thanks in advance, Doug

Idigbo is the mosts stable wood I have ever used. Made several front doors with it that are exposed to our Dartmoor rain and they have all been trouble free. Small amounts of expansion and shrinkage and almost no twisting. Worst thing about it is it can be a bit brittle and not the hardest of hardwoods.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My old neighbour was an ex joinery owner and a college joinert lecturer - he always advised idigbo for doors and windows.

 

[Doug71]

Door will be made of emeri/idigbo, not my favourite and not used it much so don't know how much it moves around etc?

Thanks in advance, Doug

Idigbo is the mosts stable wood I have ever used. Made several front doors with it that are exposed to our Dartmoor rain and they have all been trouble free. Small amounts of expansion and shrinkage and almost no twisting. Worst thing about it is it can be a bit brittle and not the hardest of hardwoods.

My old neighbour was an ex joinery owner and a college joinert lecturer - he always advised idigbo for doors and windows.

Thanks, that is reassuring. The last batch I got had lots of 2 way/interlocking grain which just furred up whichever way you planed it but this batch is much better. For some reason the dust from Idigbo seems to bother me more then the dust from any other wood, makes me sneeze!

Doug

 

[Beau]

Oh yes dusk masks are very much esential with Idigbo mind you we should where masks for all hardwoods really.

 

[deema]

I always make my doors with a groove and plant on moulding as required. This produces a better quality door as well as making it far more secure. The panels need to be a good fit. I haven’t had any issues with rot or tenons failing. For higher class joinery this is the way doors were made.

The top light in the door you have shown can be improved upon I believe to be both more aesthetically pleasing as well as letting in more light. Traditionally it would be made with Gun stock tenons on the middle rail that allow the stills to be thinned down enabling a larger light. Gun stock tenons are sometimes regarded as being very difficult. However with correct marking out and a couple of home made jigs to guide your chisel for final fitting they are only marginally more difficult than a standard tenon to make.