Mystery plane

[Dangermouse]

Picked up an old plane while on holiday in Warwick

Any one got any info on it at all, cant see a name on it, but it does have a nice brass cap.

 

[AndyT]

I'm away from home at persent without access to books, but I think that might be really early and historically interesting. Possibly rare and valuable. I think it predates the Bailey and Stanley patents.

Please resist all temptation to use any abrasives or polish or do anything to it at all without proper identification. If you don't want it, it might warrant a specialist auction such as David Stanley.

 

[jimi43]

I have a feeling that it's a Marples....cross-over between infills and Bailey design....I have seen one somewhere...

Back soon!

Jim

 

[jimi43]

I have a feeling it might be American...it certainly is rare I would say...and possibly valuable.

THIS SITE has a few similar but no cigar....

I will have another think about where I have seen it...the red paint is the thing that triggers my memory....

Just can't put my finger on it yet...but we will...

Oh I love Sherlocks! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[studders]

I know nothing about the History of Planes but.......




That Bench is a disgrace, tidy up man.

 

[Dangermouse]

I know nothing about the History of Planes but.......




That Bench is a disgrace, tidy up man.

Well i'd just finished making some shavings ( nothing else, just shavings ) and they looked so nice !! :mrgreen: :wink:

 

[jimi43]

....did you know that vise on the left is broken DM?

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Dangermouse]

....did you know that vise on the left is broken DM?

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

Thats isnt a vice but a very tecknikel and scyentiffic device to prop a bit of wood on when making shavings. !!!! (hammer) :mrgreen:

 

[Harbo]

Looking through my books I have not come across one that matches yours side profile so far?

Casting like that were around in 1827 (Knowles - Hazard) - but the early ones used wooden wedges?

Rod

 

[AndyT]

While looking for possible IDs of this plane, I came across this -

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ted metal planes&pg=PA141#v=onepage&q&f=false

- an American antique tools price guide by Clarence Blanchard. Frustratingly, nothing in there quite matches - but I thought others might enjoy some of the really wacky designs featured in it.

I especially like the idea of a combi plane with a body made of thin plates that can be adjusted to suit moulding profiles. Very clever, but so much more fiddly than a woodie!

 

[matthewwh]

Aw, you guys are such a tease!

It's a Mathieson with the sides ground off to release the lever cap coz the last muppet couldn't drift the pin out (noting the gammy finish on the 2" behind the holes in the sidewalls). Thereafter refitted with a saw type handle (or bits saved from the original infills) when said muppet realised the difficulties of making an infill to replace it.

In short my dear DM, you are the proud owner of a piece of old toot that has been abused to the point of uselessness by a previous owner and then restored by kermit the frog to within an inch of it's life.

In short, if you want a panel plane (very sensible notion indeed) ditch this dog and buy a better one. If you love this casting with all your heart, and I mean heartfelt, deep-seated, marriage levels of commitment, by all means spend between now and christmas getting it to take a shaving (which it will) but understand that it will always be yours because no one in their right mind would buy it for more than you paid for it no matter how much work you do.

This sounds so harsh and I'm cringing as I type, but sometimes if you care for the person you just have to be cruel to their panel plane.

Your best bet would be a nice ceremony in the garden and an acceptance that the bloke who made it would probably have agreed with you that it was time to let it go and search for a better example of his workmanship. I'm sure he would be deeply touched by the value you placed on his output at the bitter end of its worknig life.

 

[jimi43]

Sorry to disagree with you Matthew...but I disagree with you! :mrgreen: :wink:

Exhibit A

The "frog" is of the open type...not an infill type which would have been just a plain block at the bottom (see RichardT Fumblings)...with the wood infill making up the remaining bed material

Exhibit B

Mathieson would have used screws or through rivets (sheathed and not) to mount the infills not the handle mounts you see cast in the front and rear.

I agree with the butchering (maybe) of the rear of the lever cap...but I don't think this takes it away from the fact that this is not...nor never was...an infill plane.

Jim

 

[Scouse]

It's a Mathieson with the sides ground off to release the lever cap coz the last muppet couldn't drift the pin out (noting the gammy finish on the 2" behind the holes in the sidewalls). Thereafter refitted with a saw type handle (or bits saved from the original infills) when said muppet realised the difficulties of making an infill to replace it.

In short my dear DM, you are the proud owner of a piece of old toot that has been abused to the point of uselessness by a previous owner and then restored by kermit the frog to within an inch of it's life.

In short, if you want a panel plane (very sensible notion indeed) ditch this dog and buy a better one. If you love this casting with all your heart, and I mean heartfelt, deep-seated, marriage levels of commitment, by all means spend between now and christmas getting it to take a shaving (which it will) but understand that it will always be yours because no one in their right mind would buy it for more than you paid for it no matter how much work you do.

This sounds so harsh and I'm cringing as I type, but sometimes if you care for the person you just have to be cruel to their panel plane.

Your best bet would be a nice ceremony in the garden and an acceptance that the bloke who made it would probably have agreed with you that it was time to let it go and search for a better example of his workmanship. I'm sure he would be deeply touched by the value you placed on his output at the bitter end of its worknig life.

So... could you just clarify what you mean, 'cos I'm still not sure which side of the fence you are on in this matter! :wink: :mrgreen: :lol:

 

[matthewwh]

Sorry guys, can't chat now -

I'm busy hiding in the bushes at the bottom of DM's garden. Flask of bovril in one hand, trowel in the other.....

shhhh, someone's coming.

 

[AndyT]

Ok, this is all speculation until someone can come up with a catalogue picture or matching example in better nick, but I suggest:

It had an American style round front knob, not a panel plane square one - evidence is that this picture

shows a round, thick area in the casting, around the surviving stub. (DM - can you take some closer pics or comment on this?)

Also, I reckon the rear handle is original. It does not look like any saw handle; the shape is odd enough to belong to that time before one design dominated. For evidence, could we see how it is fixed to the casting please? Is there a screw up through the bed, or anything that might be screwed down into a lump or onto a stud?

This early US plane from the site Jimi linked to looks as if it might have a similar method to fix the handle:

Again, a closer view would help - as would more knowledge!

And Matthew - when you say Mathieson, can you point to a specific, cast, model? I've only got scans of an 1899 catalogue, but there is nothing similar in there that I can find.

 

[Dangermouse]

Aw, you guys are such a tease!

It's a Mathieson with the sides ground off to release the lever cap coz the last muppet couldn't drift the pin out (noting the gammy finish on the 2" behind the holes in the sidewalls). Thereafter refitted with a saw type handle (or bits saved from the original infills) when said muppet realised the difficulties of making an infill to replace it.

In short my dear DM, you are the proud owner of a piece of old toot that has been abused to the point of uselessness by a previous owner and then restored by kermit the frog to within an inch of it's life.

In short, if you want a panel plane (very sensible notion indeed) ditch this dog and buy a better one. If you love this casting with all your heart, and I mean heartfelt, deep-seated, marriage levels of commitment, by all means spend between now and christmas getting it to take a shaving (which it will) but understand that it will always be yours because no one in their right mind would buy it for more than you paid for it no matter how much work you do.

This sounds so harsh and I'm cringing as I type, but sometimes if you care for the person you just have to be cruel to their panel plane.

Your best bet would be a nice ceremony in the garden and an acceptance that the bloke who made it would probably have agreed with you that it was time to let it go and search for a better example of his workmanship. I'm sure he would be deeply touched by the value you placed on his output at the bitter end of its worknig life.

WOW !
Right here goes.
1/ The plane is totally cast iron and original. There has been no grinding behind the cap fitting. The lever cap has pins cast as one piece with the cap in the sides which fit perfectly the slots on the plane sides.
2/ The handle looks original and is fitted to the plane by a cast iron dovetail socket in the base of the plane, which the base of the handle slides into as a very tight fit. No screws or anything else that i can see.
3 / Never been a panel plane as the front has a cast post with the remains of a screw cast in, with a mark on the cast base for a round front knob that fitted all the way down to the base, the mouth has never been filed or altered and is cast integeral with the base and of course the rear handle is fitted into a sliding dovetail cast with the sole of the plane.

 

[Richard T]

Looks like a very low angle for a BD and I s'pose it has to be a BD with a mouth that wide. What is the angle DM?

Sliding dovetailed stuff like that points to the vague direction of Germany/Holland when seen in furniture and the angle of frog is odd; America seemed to settle quickly for 45 for everything.
Pity about the front knob - tricky to think of a good solution too. Maybe cut off what is left of the old rod, drill slightly into raised pommel and braise in new threaded rod?

All this may be academic of course if it has already been given the last rights by the mysterious figure in the bushes. Would this mean its sole would go to Workshop Heaven? :shock: You might want to re think this Matthew ..... while I get my largest coat.

 

[AndyT]

And another obvious question to add to my earlier ones:

Have you tried putting a blade in and having a go with it?

I'd assume a double iron, which you could borrow from another plane, fitted bevel down. With the mouth that wide, a chunky old iron from a wooden plane might be suitable.

 

[Dangermouse]

And another obvious question to add to my earlier ones:

Have you tried putting a blade in and having a go with it?

I'd assume a double iron, which you could borrow from another plane, fitted bevel down. With the mouth that wide, a chunky old iron from a wooden plane might be suitable.

I haven't got a blade form an old wooden plane wide enough. Off to a boot sale om sunday hope to get one there. Width of the blade would be 2.5 inches

 

[jimi43]

If you can't find one DM...I may have a tapered one 2 3/8 if it's any use. I might not have a spare cap iron though....

Jimi