Flattening the sole of my new smoothing plane

[L2wis]

Hello all,

I'm having some serious issues flattening the sole of my new smoothing plane, for Christmas I received a new #04 smoothing plane the same as this: Amazon link

I've already got a nice second hand smoothing plane of which i flattened the sole of, the brand of which is Talco which i believe is an old english brand? Anyway, when I flattened the sole on the talco I had no problem at all and it didn't take me long at all but this new record plane is really taking some work!!!

I've been using abrasive on some glass much the same as I did before with the old plane, I started at 400 grit but I've had to come right down to 80G now as I soon realised after about an hour I wasn't getting anywhere with the 400. I'm amazed at how much out of flat the plane is, I think there might have been as much as 1mm gap under my straight edge when I started, the gap is in the middle of the plane the high points were at the toe and heel.

My question is this... What should I do next? Keep going with the 80G or take it to my disc sander and risk taking it out of true?

Oh I should mention the plane is set up with the blade and everything in place and tightened to normal levels and I've been attempting to flatten it for around 3hrs so far.

 

[Jacob]

You could send it back it sounds no good to me.

But if you want to flatten it it's best done with 60 to 80 grit, wet on a flat impermeable surface. Use cheap paper wet n dry as it sticks down nicely if kept very wet with water or white spirit. No need to glue etc. Keep changing the paper. The heavier cloth backed stuff doesn't lie down so flat.
It'll be a bit snatchy at first but a very quick pass over a finer grade (your 400? - a bit on the fine side) will fix this - it won't remove the scratches but will remove the friction in just a few seconds of rubbing. Even if you don't do this a bit of use will rapidly reduce the sharpness of the 80 grit scratches especially if you apply a bit of candle wax (quick one-second scribble with a candle every now and then).

No need to polish - thats just for tool-polish enthusiasts!

Definitely don't use a disc sander.

 

[woodpig]

Sounds like a job for a surface grinder, any engineering shops near you? As said though it should probably have gone back to the supplier. Hope you get it sorted.

 

[bridger]

Shift the bulk of the material *carefully* with files. When you can no longer see light under the straightedge, finish it off with the abrasives.

 

[GLFaria]

I dare say removing 1mm or so from the sole will weaken the plane too much. And if the out of flatness originates from improper seasoning or stress relieving, some of it will come back again.

 

[MIGNAL]

Sorry but you should not have attempted to flatten it. It should be sent back. 1 mm is a heck of a lot on a smoothing Plane. I don't know how much it actually cost but at that price there are better options.

 

[L2wis]

My thoughts after an hour of flattening and making little progress was sending it back however this is tricky as it was a gift. If I had purchased it myself it certainly would have gone back. I've only had secondhand planes before so i wasnt aware that this would be probably be a write off with the amount of flattening required.

As this was a gift I'm not sure where it was purchased from but do shops generally take back items that have been sharpened / flattened partially?

Suppose it could be worth a try before putting in more work.

Jacob, you described exactly how I've been doing it, I use glass cleaner as my lapping fluid though.

 

[Jacob]

...
Jacob, you described exactly how I've been doing it, I use glass cleaner as my lapping fluid though.

Ah well - 40 grit then!
If you started with 400 grit it's no wonder you got a bit brassed off! There really is no need to go fine.

 

[mouppe]

Make sure the blade is tightened in place (but retracted) as this can affect flex the sole.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Shift the bulk of the material *carefully* with files. When you can no longer see light under the straightedge, finish it off with the abrasives.

^ This.

Take the blade out, and hold the sole casting bottom-up in a vice (engineer's for preference, but use what you've got). Use something like a 10" or 12" ******* cut flat file to start with to shift the bulk of the waste, checking frequently with a straightedge to see where the high spots are, and addressing them. Then as you get it flat when checked with a straightedge, clean up with a 8" second cut flat, then a 6" smooth flat file. Go very carefully and check very frequently the nearer you get to flat. Once it's flat as you can get it by filing, put the blade in, snap the lever cap down, back the blade off, and finish the work by lapping with 80-grit. You can then either work through the grades to the finish that suits you, or do as Jacob suggests and just take off the peaks with a fine grade. The sole will look a bit of a mess, but will work well enough using Jacob's dodge.

Either that, or get it machined flat.

 

[RogerP]

A while ago I was given a plane with similar problems.

With nothing much to lose I took the hooligan approach. Whacked it on my bench sander fitted with a blue Zirconia belt for a couple on minutes to get it somewhere near then (after it had cooled right down) used more approved methods to finish off.

I think I scared the life out of it as ever since it's been a very good plane to use.

 

[deema]

Do you need a scrub plane? If you do I would simply change the blade profile (large curve) and perhaps open up the mouth a little and have a lovely scrub plane. No need to flaten the sole and the gift has a very useful new purpose.

 

[David C]

A 1mm hollow on a no 4 is ridiculous.

It should be sent back. A reputable dealer would not argue.

The donor is not likely to be offended by faults which he/ she/ they could not be expected to understand.

If you are determined to flatten it, I just wonder what sort of glass you have and what is it sitting on?

40 grit would be a good place to start. Black felt tip marker lines help to show where metal is being removed.

David Charlesworth

 

[iNewbie]

As this was a gift I'm not sure where it was purchased from but do shops generally take back items that have been sharpened / flattened partially?

Suppose it could be worth a try before putting in more work.

None I'm aware of - not when you've tampered with it.

 

[L2wis]

Thanks for the feedback and ideas all, using it as a scrub plane was an idea that crossed my mind but i'd much prefer a lovely smoother!!!

I've been using a sharpie to keep a track of my progress, because ive got fed up of going at it with 80g I've turned to my coarse diamond plate which is certainly not ideal as its only 2" wide and I've been checking over the sole and think I've made some progress.

My left shoulder blade is aching today so tomorrow morning this plane will either be flat or a scrub plane. I will post some pics too.

Thanks again guys.

I might drop Irwin Record an email to let them know what I think to their planes.

 

[matthewwh]

If it was out by a mm (40 thou) and British Standard is 3 thou, it's more than 13 times out of tolerance. That isn't an 'oops', it's just a waste of scarce materials and resources that could have been used by a competent manufacturer instead.

Out of fairness for the poor soul who answers the telephone, I would suggest that you contact Irwin before you reach the point of total exasperation rather than after.

 

[David C]

Pressing too hard on a diamond plate will likely destroy it.

 

[marcros]

Is it really that far out? How are you measuring it, because 13x out of the bs tolerance seems extreme

 

[Jacob]

...
Jacob, you described exactly how I've been doing it, I use glass cleaner as my lapping fluid though.

Ah well - 40 grit then!
If you started with 400 grit it's no wonder you got a bit brassed off! There really is no need to go fine.

PS I should add - you should really flood the paper in a pool of fluid (whatever it is) not just moisten it. This keeps it flat down by suction and also floats off the swarf (which you can lift off with magnet if your base plate is not steel). Even your 1mm shouldn't take too long with 40 to 60 grit paper.
You don't need to mark anything you can see by the scratches how you are getting on. If in doubt alter the direction of your efforts for a different scratch pattern but finish fore and aft so the scratches are in line with the plane, to reduce friction in use.
To repeat - no need to go finer than very coarse as the sharpness is soon lost in use, but you can speed this up by a quick pass over a finer grit, if you want to.

I've never tried filing as described by CC, so have no idea of the relative merits. Sounds worth having a go though.

 

[L2wis]

I'll grab my feeler gauges from the shed this morning and measure the remaining gap for reference. These pics are not in chronical order. The sole at the moment is much further on now than in the below pic, the was taken after I was just getting going.

Set up:


Blade adjuster:


Sole after half an hour: