Couple 'teach themselves' to build a timber framed house???!

[rafezetter]

Hmm... I'm not sure why Blackrodd would think my post was solely for him but hey ho.

What I had hoped was transparent about my comment regarding the cowboy builders was that you can be someone who actually took a course in a trade at some point and STILL be a bodging cowboy builder, with the mentality "get it done, get the money, and get out" and you can also be a self taught "DIY tradesman" of sorts who will work with the attitude "my wife is watching and if I screw this up there will be hell to pay"; with every shade imaginable in between.

Having done a course - or even passing an exam or several is absolutely ZERO indication of attitude towards the work or the client once you've got that certificate; not even how many years you've been in business counts, because there are always those who will get away with doing "just enough" to get paid.

I think that the words self taught were used in the article because its simpler to say that then "they bought a bunch of books, watch youtube vids and got advice from friends and others" but even then - unless you go and ask them and they admit they took nightclasses and had private sessions with woodworkers, sparkies and other trades people; then you'll just have to accept what was written. Simply stating "I don't beleive it's possible" is closeminded without proof.

There are wonders that have been made by man, often untrained amateurs that are amazing - do you disregard those with the same viewpoint?

http://www.boredpanda.com/cave-carving-ra-paulette-new-mexico/

Read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra_Paulette

and another: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Garden_of_Chandigarh

that's what saddens me - that people don't beleive this is possible when there is proof it can be.

 

[Fatboy]

I can't understand why this has caused so much controversy - I suggest those that think this article is mostly false watch all 11 series of "Grand designs" (the one about housebuilding) and you'll see dozens of people all doing it for themselves because they don't have the money to pay someone else - and in most of the cases - doing a bloody good job of it too. I saw one episode where a retired couple bought what was just a falling down shell in a small village in france and did the entire renovations themselves, and both of them were past 60 before they even started. It was three floors and all it had were the walls, and even those were barely standing up.

That's probably my all time favourite 'episode' of Grand Designs and it makes your point perfectly.

I've worked on some self builds, many where the owner has bought in every trade upto and including interior design and one where a young couple with two kids under 3 did it all themselves because they simply couldn't afford to pay for trades but wanted their own design. I watched his wife learn to lay blocks when they were coming out of the ground and greatly admired the incredible face brick fireplace she created 20 months later. I offered to help them put the roof on, they just asked for advice and confirmation a few times but did it all themselves in the end.

Where there is a will.....

 

[doorframe]

... then you'll just have to accept what was written.

Just like 'The Sun' readers.

 

[Lons]

What I had hoped was transparent about my comment regarding the cowboy builders was that you can be someone who actually took a course in a trade at some point and STILL be a bodging cowboy builder, with the mentality "get it done, get the money, and get out" and you can also be a self taught "DIY tradesman" of sorts who will work with the attitude "my wife is watching and if I screw this up there will be hell to pay"; with every shade imaginable in between.

Having done a course - or even passing an exam or several is absolutely ZERO indication of attitude towards the work or the client once you've got that certificate; not even how many years you've been in business counts, because there are always those who will get away with doing "just enough" to get paid.

That is of course absolutely true...however it very definitely isn't confined to just builders. There are "cowboys" for want of a better word in every industry and profession you can think of from politicians down to the guy on the dole ripping everyone off wherever they can. Blatter (FIFA) is a prime high profile example at the minute.

I think that the words self taught were used in the article because its simpler to say that then "they bought a bunch of books, watch youtube vids and got advice from friends and others" but even then - unless you go and ask them and they admit they took nightclasses and had private sessions with woodworkers, sparkies and other trades people; then you'll just have to accept what was written. Simply stating "I don't beleive it's possible" is closeminded without proof.

I followed the usual academic route eventually managing companies for other people before setting up my building company and working for myself for 18 years before retiring a few months ago. While working full time supporting a wife and 2 kids I also lectured part time, converted my own properties while also gaining teaching and woodworking qualifications alongside the usual family commitments so I know just how much time is needed to invest in a "self build" and how much work is possible without help, in a given time bearing in mind I'm experienced not a beginner.

I don't consider myself to be "closeminded" and unless you've asked the reporter of the atricle, by stating "I think" in your above quote you are also making assumptions without proof.
If you are naive enough to just accept and believe what you read then good luck to you. :wink:

Bob