Triple Extractor WIP

[Chems]

So I won yesterday on ebay one of these:

And he said in the listing he had an identical one that was a different colour, the previous perform model I guess. I made him an offer for both and both are on there way now. I already own this:

So my inspiration is KityUser who has done this:

And he found that it doubled his suction as you'd hope, so from the axy specs its giving 840m³/hr so I'm hoping for that times 2520m³/h. In comparison the ADE1200 is 1200m³/hr and the next model up from that the ADE2200 is 2200m³/hr. The triple motor CamVac is 565m³/hr on a HPLV system. So I'm hoping to get similar performace for £100 as I got the previous dust extractor free.

I'll have them individually switched and am hoping to be able to arrange them within the existing framework of my current dust extractor. Also going to order this fine filter for the top and get some plastic bags for the bottom.

Expecting delivery towards the end of the week so will update again then.

 

[TheTiddles]

You might get that huge flow with the bags off but the filter will limit that right down. Individually switching the motors is fine but if you have one on and the other two off it'll need to push or pull the other two fans round which will waste energy and may take 30 seconds or so to get them going, maybe using the fans as individual units for your furthest out machines would be more efficient?

Aidan

 

[Chems]

Apparently changing to a fine filter unit really increases the performance as its has more surface area. I thought it would be the other way around. I see what your saying but won't know till I try it all out. TBH if I'm going to be using the extractor I'll be using all 3.

 

[Mike.C]

Chem you would think that having 3 extractors running would be great, but like me you might very well have problems.

I wrote (in Mike Garnhams drop box thread):

You all seem to grasp Mike's idea with no problem at all, so I am sorry if the following questions seem stupid with obvious answer's, but here goes anyway.

How did Mike (Saville) decide where to put the baffle's and how many to use?

What are the baffle's for?

How did any of you decide what size box to build?

I have 100mm metal extraction piping around my workshop, but I am very unsatisfied with its performance. Would one of Mike Garnham's box's work with a 100mm system? and if so how big would the box need to be?

Or are these boxes only for power tools and small pipes?

The 100mm piping runs around the workshop at ceiling height, and I have a Scheppach HA 2600 with a fine filter and a Elektra Beckum (Metabo) SPA 1100 connected together (and running at the same time) to one end of the system. And when I use the table saw I have a Camvac twin motored GV386 twin motor connected to the blade guard.
When this was set up we already had the three extractors, and it was thought that they would easily deal with all the dust, but it has really been a let down and even with two of its motors running the Camvac does not clear much the dust from the table saw.

All the joints in the metal piping are sealed with tape and only one blast gate is open at a time.

If I can use a box in this system would you use the 3 extractors with a suitable triple adapter at one end of the system?

Any advice you could give in improving my system will be greatly received.

Cheers

Mike

As you can see I have a 100mm metal ducting system (26ft long with branches running off to various machines, and connected to this are 3 extractors including a twin motored Camvac GV386, but considering all this power the suction is crap.

Mike G wrote:

Mike.C wrote:
How did Mike (Saville) decide where to put the baffle's and how many to use? What are the baffle's for?

How did any of you decide what size box to build?

I have 100mm metal extraction piping around my workshop, but I am very unsatisfied with its performance. Would one of Mike Garnham's box's work with a 100mm system? and if so how big would the box need to be?


Mike,

It should work really well with your system, I'd have thought. The thing is, it can be made of scrap in a few hours for zero cost, so if it doesn't work there is no harm done.

My instinct is that your hose cross sectional area is approx. 9 times mine, so the volume in the box should be roughly 9 times the volume of my box......and the dims of mine are above (page 3). The volume of my current box is .08 cu.m roughly, so I reckon yours should be at least three quarters of a cubic metre.......but the bigger it is, the better it will work.

The baffles are there merely to knock some of the sawust and chips out of the airstream so that gravity can grab them more easily.

The other thing that would make it better, I think, would be if the drop-box was located adjacent to the machine, .....but this probably isn't too important.

The only other thought I have had about your set-up with multiple machines trying to work together to do the extracting, is are they working with each other, or cancelling each other out?

What you are proposing is exactly what I have in mind when I build my next workshop.

Mike
_________________
Slope Immune

How to build a shed properly: here

As you can see Mike thinks that the extractors might be cancelling each other out.

I wrote:

Mike many thanks for the explanation and the size of the box I need.

As for the 3 extractors cancelling each other out, I will have to do some testing but I think you might very well be right, because if you disconnect and put your hand over the inlet of a single extractor, and then go over and test the inlet pipe by a machine with all 3 extractors running, I am sure the single extractor feels more powerful.
Have you got any tips on positioning the extractors? (the metal piping runs down the complete lenght of a 26ft x 13ft workshop, with several branches running off to my machines) Or would I be better off selling them and buying a single more powerful extractor to do the job?
If so have you (or anyone else) got any recomendations?
What figures should I be looking at? For instance Scheppach claim that their HA2600 has a volume rating of 1000m3 per hour, 1/sec, is this the figure, because I cannot see any other info?
The Elektra Beckum is 842 m3/h and the Camvac gives their's in litres 108 l/sec.

I have this type of blast gate http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Main/sp-4 ... oryID1=979 (but not from this company). Can they ever cause a problem by leaking?

Once again any advice will be gratefully received

Cheers

Mike

[/code]

The Camvac gives their power reading in litres per second (108 l/sec) can anyone tell me how to convert this into m3/h? Is this litres per second for one of the camvac motors or 2?

I am really at a loss what to do and I do not know wether to sell all three machines and buy one big one that will take care of the whole system (both chips and the fine stuff) or rearrange the ones I have. Can anyone advise me? What would you do Chem?

Cheers

Mike

 

[CHJ]

The Camvac gives their power reading in litres per second (108 l/sec) can anyone tell me how to convert this into m3/h?

1 litre = 0.001 cubic metres

1 (cu metre) = 1000 litres


108 l/s * 60 = 6480 l/m * 60 = 38,800 l/h = 388 cu mtr/h

Think that's right, head cold drowning in brandy is not resulting in the clearest of thoughts.

 

[trousers]

I make it 388 cu m/hr?

 

[Mike.C]

The Camvac gives their power reading in litres per second (108 l/sec) can anyone tell me how to convert this into m3/h?

1 litre = 0.001 cubic metres

1 (cu metre) = 1000 litres


108 l/s * 60 = 6480 l/m * 60 = 38,800 l/h = 38.8 cu mtr/h

Think that's right, head cold drowning in brandy is not resulting in the clearest of thoughts.

38.8 cu mtr/h are you sure? Is that both of them or each?

Trousers wrote:

[/quote]I make it 388 cu m/hr?

388 cu m/hr sounds more like it, but is that each motor or both?

In the end it does not really matter, I just want to get the problem in my post above sorted.

Sorry to hyjack your post Chems

Cheers

Mike

 

[CHJ]

The Camvac gives their power reading in litres per second (108 l/sec) can anyone tell me how to convert this into m3/h?

1 litre = 0.001 cubic metres

1 (cu metre) = 1000 litres


108 l/s * 60 = 6480 l/m * 60 = 38,800 l/h = 38.8 cu mtr/h

Think that's right, head cold drowning in brandy is not resulting in the clearest of thoughts.

38.8 cu mtr/h are you sure?

388 moved decimal point one too many places.


***********
Triple stage filtration 0.5 micron
Choice of suction power
Choice of hose inlet size: 2.5in or 4in

Technical Specifications
Capacity: 36ltr
Drum Size: 395mm height x 370mm diameter
Weight: Approx 10kg
Motor Type: Two-stage Direct Airflow, 50Hz AC/DC, 220/240v (110/115v also available)
Power: Single Motor 1100W, Twin Motor 2200W
Airflow: Single Motor 54 l/sec (111cfm), Twin Motor 108 l/sec (222cfm)
Vacuum: 2080mm H20
Cable: 8m x .75mm 3 core with 13-amp plug
Switch: 16-amp Single Pole Rocker


***********************

 

[Mike.C]

The Camvac gives their power reading in litres per second (108 l/sec) can anyone tell me how to convert this into m3/h?

1 litre = 0.001 cubic metres

1 (cu metre) = 1000 litres


108 l/s * 60 = 6480 l/m * 60 = 38,800 l/h = 38.8 cu mtr/h

Think that's right, head cold drowning in brandy is not resulting in the clearest of thoughts.

38.8 cu mtr/h are you sure?

388 moved decimal point one too many places.


***********
Triple stage filtration 0.5 micron
Choice of suction power
Choice of hose inlet size: 2.5in or 4in

Technical Specifications
Capacity: 36ltr
Drum Size: 395mm height x 370mm diameter
Weight: Approx 10kg
Motor Type: Two-stage Direct Airflow, 50Hz AC/DC, 220/240v (110/115v also available)
Power: Single Motor 1100W, Twin Motor 2200W
Airflow: Single Motor 54 l/sec (111cfm), Twin Motor 108 l/sec (222cfm)
Vacuum: 2080mm H20
Cable: 8m x .75mm 3 core with 13-amp plug
Switch: 16-amp Single Pole Rocker


***********************

Thanks CHJ. 388 cu mtr/h that is not really much when you compare it to the much cheaper Sheppach which at 1000 cu mtr/h has 3 times the power. Or is it because it was made to pick up fine dust?

Cheers

Mike

 

[CHJ]

Difference between High Pressure Low Volume (HPLV) and Low Pressure High Volume.(LPHV) I suspect, haven't looked at which Sheppach you are referring to.

 

[Mike.C]

Difference between High Pressure Low Volume (HPLV) and Low Pressure High Volume.(LPHV) I suspect, haven't looked at which Sheppach you are referring to.

Once again thanks Chas. The Scheppach is a HA2600.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Chems]

http://www.duncanrogers.com/tools/conversion.php

That page if you scroll down has a section on airflow, just type in what you need to change.

I heard what your saying about your set up. Are you connecting through a Y connection or like Kity User did and in series so to speak? KityUser found they cancelled each other out when done in a Y as they were working against each other. He found that he got double extraction with both running, so setting up the same system with an extra one, I can't see why I won't get triple extraction. It will be a fun experiement and I shall do it in the name of UKW!

 

[CHJ]

. The Scheppach is a HA2600.

Low Pressure High Volume.

 

[wizer]

another dizzying thread. Watching with pessimistic interest.

 

[Mike.C]

http://www.duncanrogers.com/tools/conversion.php

That page if you scroll down has a section on airflow, just type in what you need to change.

I heard what your saying about your set up. Are you connecting through a Y connection or like Kity User did and in series so to speak? KityUser found they cancelled each other out when done in a Y as they were working against each other. He found that he got double extraction with both running, so setting up the same system with an extra one, I can't see why I won't get triple extraction. It will be a fun experiement and I shall do it in the name of UKW!

Yes I have the two double bag extractors (Scheppach and Elektra Beckum, just like your Axminster in the frame and on wheels) connected to the ducting by way of a Y connecter. Do you think if I ran both of them in line or tandem it would work better? If so what would be the best way to do this?

Tom wrote:

another dizzying thread. Watching with pessimistic interest.

What do you mean Tom, have I missed something come on spill the beans?

Cheers

Mike

 

[Chems]

I think tom just means hes not sure it will work but will watch with intrest.

Yes definatly mike. Read this thread:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/dual ... 0extractor

kityuser has done all the work I'm just copying him.

 

[Mike.C]

I think tom just means hes not sure it will work but will watch with intrest.

Yes definatly mike. Read this thread:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/dual ... 0extractor

kityuser has done all the work I'm just copying him.

Thanks mate (and Kityuser) for the link. :lol: I am sure that that will work better. Let us know how you get along with yours and I will do the same.

Cheers

Mike

 

[wizer]

I think tom just means hes not sure it will work but will watch with intrest.

indeed

 

[Mike.C]

I think tom just means hes not sure it will work but will watch with intrest.

indeed

Ah I see and here's me thinking that you could see the problems I am/was going to have. :roll:

I keep on telling anyone that will listen :-({|= that dust and the extraction off is a pet hate of mine. It seems like a black art that some people are lucky enough to solve, while others are not, and for years now I have been well and truly with the latter.

How is your dust extraction? Have you got any tips?
I still keep on thinking (and asking) that I maybe better off selling the 3 extractors and buying one big one that will sort both the chip and fine dust problems out such as something like this http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/5/prod ... 795037.htm
or this one
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=48

What do you think? Is there another extractor that would suit me better?

Or does anyone have any other tips if I stick with the 3 extractors?

For the fine dust floating around the workshop I do have a Jet/Axminster AFS2000 or the Big Brother as they used to call them. And this takes care of the fine dust extremely well, but the only problem is although it does a good job I must still be breathing some of it in before it gets to the filter, and so I would really like to stop as much of it getting into the air as I can.

The Kityuser link may work but if anyone else has got any other ideas I would really like to hear them.

Cheers

Mike

 

[wizer]

My state of extraction is pitiful. I should be and am ashamed. For Christmas I was given a full face respirator and now wear it for whatever I'm doing in the workshop.

My recent thread about my workshop was centred around moving stuff around ready for ducting. Hopefully I can do that this summer.