Space-saver stairs for loft conversion

[BradNaylor]

Main project at home for this year is to convert the loft into a usable room. Having done the same thing at our previous house I want to lose as little valuable space as possible with the stairs and have been looking at this design which the makers claim take up half the space of conventional ones.

Making them doesn't phase me but I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience of them in use, and how good are they? I've never seen such a staircase in the flesh!

Cheers
Dan

 

[Woody Alan]

Dan

I know someone who has these.

I found myself struggling with which foot to use first on the first tread, and always looking at the stairs to confirm my footing. To be fair this is something you may get used to, or not even use the stairs that often to consider it a problem. Going upstairs should be an action that you don't have to think about as far as I am concerned.
But that is only my opinion, and if I was stuck for an alternative then I would consider using them as the last choice.

Alan

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Dan,

My brother-in-law has a staircase like that in his loft conversion where space was very tight. They do work and make the best of a bad situation, but you wouldn't want old people walking up and down them.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[tim]

Dan

I may well be wrong but I understood regs to say that while these ladders can be used for lofts etc, they can't be used for constantly inhabited rooms eg bedrooms.

I stand to be corrected though. I have used them in the past in other people's houses and found them easy to use but always a bit unnerving - like carrying a hot cup of tea up a stepladder.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Deejay]

Hello Dan

FYI if you intend to make your own, Part K of the building regs covers them.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upload ... K_1998.pdf

It specifies fitting handrails, which makes them safer to use.

Cheers

Deejay

 

[BradNaylor]

Thanks for that Deejay,

I didn't know where to start looking for the building regs on such stairs, but now I've got 'em!

It looks like I'm fine using them for a loft bedroom and en-suite - which is what I'm planning.

I must say though, I'm in two minds as to whether to go through building control. We've no intention of selling the house in the forseeable future but even if we did the conversion could be described as an 'attic room with bathroom facilities' rather than a 'bedroom'. This is what we did with the last house and it sold at our asking price straight away.

Employing a builder and going through building control would cost maybe £15k. Doing it myself I reckon on about £4k.

What does the panel think?

 

[BradNaylor]

Dan

I have used them in the past in other people's houses and found them easy to use but always a bit unnerving - like carrying a hot cup of tea up a stepladder.

Cheers

Tim

By using these stairs we'll have a huge room in the attic - about 24' square. Enough for our bedroom, shower room, lounge area, and tea-making facilties!

I'l never have to carry a cup of tea (or glass of wine) upstairs. In fact Mrs T and myself will have no need to use the rest of the house. The kids can have that!

 

[Jake]

Employing a builder and going through building control would cost maybe £15k. Doing it myself I reckon on about £4k.

What does the panel think?

The two don't go together. For something like this you could issue a building notice. The only difference is that you have to do it properly because you will be inspected, and the fee of a few hundred pounds.

 

[RogerS]

..... We've no intention of selling the house in the forseeable future but even if we did the conversion could be described as an 'attic room with bathroom facilities' rather than a 'bedroom'. This is what we did with the last house and it sold at our asking price straight away....

Whenever you sell, the purchasers' solicitors may well pick up on this and then pose awkward questions. In the final analysis though the purchaser may still go through with the purchase and so you're OK. On the other hand...maybe you were lucky when you sold your last house...market conditions...rising prices...desperate to buy etc etc

I'd be more concerned about any potential purchasers' mortgage company surveyor picking up on it and giving the thumbs down. Believe me...they do seem to be tightening up a lot these days.

As Jake says....pay the nominal amount for Building Control notice and do it yourself. You were going to do it properly anyway, weren't you :wink:

 

[Deejay]

Hello Dan

Have a look at

http://www.simplifydiy.com/building-wor ... troduction

Some stuff there about Planning and Building Reg's

I considered a loft conversion last year. The local Building Control were very helpful. If you do go down the official route the drawings will cost a bit, and you'll have to pay for the BC inspections, but as Jake said, you can do the work yourself. I'd have a look at the Building Control section of your Council's website.

If you pop stairplan into google, they make all sorts of staircases and have drawings available. It's surprising what you can squeeze into a small space. You might be able to shoehorn one into a bit of space pinched from somewhere, and end up with a 'proper' staircase. Just a thought.

Cheers

Deejay

 

[BradNaylor]

As Jake says....pay the nominal amount for Building Control notice and do it yourself. You were going to do it properly anyway, weren't you :wink:

I have every intention of doing the job properly to the standards I consider appropriate - it is our home and I have the safety of my wife and four kids to consider.

However, I have a certain allergy to officialdom!

As I understand things, it is perfectly lawful for me to do a loft conversion without going through building control; it is just that I may have a problem should we come to sell the house.

As we fully expect to live in the house for the rest of our naturals, this issue does not really concern me.

Building regs call for expensive items like RSJ's - I know that in our case these are not necessary. Toughening up the existing joists will give a perfectly good platform for another floor, and any structural engineer would agree. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any room for common sense in these matters - rules is rules.

So I reckon I'll just have to get on with it!

 

[Shadowfax]

Actually, it will not be perfectly lawful. It will be unauthorised work and if building control ever become aware of it you will have to apply for a regularisation certificate. If the work does not then meet the required standards it will have to be improved.
Ask for the proper advice from the people who can tell you exactly what you can do and what alternatives are available to you. That much will cost nothing at all.
If you do the work on a building notice you won't need expensive plans either.
Just my two cents' worth.
Cheers.

SF

 

[Oryxdesign]

I used to have these stairs leading up to my bed. The house was a converted telephone exchange and was very small but did have high ceilings so I put the bed o n top of the wardrobe as you can see. The stairs in this situation worked well but the wife did fall down them once (drunk, don't tell her I told you) as she got confused about which foot to lead with. I really wouldn't recommend them for a loft conversion as it's too far up, to get into my bed you didn't even need to climb to the top but it did become a bit of a pain.

 

[58954b]

Which type of joint do you suggest to fit the stair treads into the side stringers?

Or are there any metal fittings which would make the job faster to assemble?

Thanks

 

[MikeG.]

Dan,

I would be very cautious of these stairs.

They are difficult to use, and to my mind quite dangerous, as you really do need to approach them a bit like you would approach a ladder from the top of a scaffold.......you have to get your feet and hands in the right place. It would make it impossible to get up in the night without putting a light on.

Don't do you loft conversion without building regulations approval. It is a requirement, and you could be served with an enforcement order. Normally conversions are a Planning issue as well because of the addition of rooflights or dormers. There are fire regulations regarding loft conversions which aren't onerous, but are easily overlooked by the amateur, leading to potentially life-threatening situations.

Just to put the record straight again, building regulations will not require you to make the structure in any particular way (you talked about them maybe requiring an RSJ). You are in charge........its just that you have to be able to justify what you are proposing, which is only reasonable. If you want to build it out of Mars Bars, and can find an engineer who can prove it works, you will be allowed to.

If you want to send me a drawing and some photos electronically I can give you broad advice if you want.......

Mike

 

[StevieB]

I presume you would have to come down these backwards rather than forwards? Might be a pain in the long run.

Steve.

 

[Oryxdesign]

Hi Mike

I see that you are an architect, would you mind giving me an idea of what sort of money I should expect to pay to get a loft conversion drawn, calculated and through planning.
I am tempted to do some of it myself, I use vectorworks so it wouldn't be a problem to do the survey but I'm not sure any body would want to do half a job.
Simon