Inca Table Saw Restoration

[jimi43]

Hi Guys....not sure if this is the right forum as I don't post very often but thought you would be interested in this little gem I picked up recently.

I acquired this Swiss made "INCA" table saw the other week at a bootfair and it was in a pretty awful (and dangerous) state:

The above picture was from eBay of the actual saw where the guy was trying (and failing) to sell it.

A little research told me this was an INCA 59 saw and was quite sought after...particularly in the USA.

There was extensive but not deep rust on a lot of parts...particularly the stand and so a respray was the only way to go...

The old Gryphon motor worked fine but again was really rusty...

The wiring was particularly bad with totally perished rubber "insulation" which wasn't!!

How the guy didn't electrocute himself simply amazes me!

Anyway....a little stripping down and polishing...rust neutralising and painting and she now rocks and rolls....OH...and I replaced the wiring!!

The colour matching was more towards the INCA green than the "Startrite" metalic green....since I couldn't get this colour...it is "FORD FOREST GREEN"...

The motor was not an INCA one so that became enamel blue...just for a bit of contrast...

The cast aluminium bed needed complete sanding down through the grades and came out quite well...it had some deep gouges..

I cleaned the main bed up and left it basically untouched...there was some paint flaking in some places...but not many...

I need to get a new blade as the one in it was quite rusty and had one tooth of the TCTs missing...I didn't really want any more coming off at a few thousand revs! I need to source one with a 15mm arbour...160mm...not sure where I will find one of them in the UK!!

Any comments...help...advice or anyone with knowledge of this gem...gratefully received...

Cheers guys

Jim

 

[leighf]

Can't help with the blade but OMG, what a fantastic job you've done.

Hope you have many hours of pleasure fromyour hard labour!!!!

 

[clewlowm]

can't you just use a reducing bush?

 

[woody67]

That's just amazing Jim :shock:

I personally love these restoration threads - but sadly the one burning question is...........and I'm sure many more would like to know................is how much you paid for it and what it has cost to date. Sorry Jim, but someone's got to ask

Mark

 

[jimi43]

Thanks for the kind words guys....much appreciated. I can't stand to see high quality engineering disappear into the dreaded land of rust!

Given the wiring deterioration and the information I have I would say that it is a 1960s saw. Not bad old lady once she had a facelift.

The gentleman (and he was) had it at the fair for two weeks up for £20...he had it on eBay for a ton!

I nearly bought it the first time around but he was right over the back of a field and I was at the back of a carpark and I never THOUGHT of the idea of dismantling it in situ!!!

The following week I offered him £15 for it and he took it..and gave me an adjustable and a Phillips to take it apart! The motor alone nearly crippled me carrying it back to the car!

The paint cost me for two tins at Halfords...£8 and I had some grey Hammerite primer anyway....So I am into this project for £23 and about six hours graft....

I have just checked the arbour and it is 15mm exactly...the blade that was fitted was a 16mm (about 5/8") and a conical bronze bush was used to fill in the 1mm gap. I am not an expert on packing these things out with a reducing disc but I think it would have to be a conical one at only 1mm play or can you go down to inserts of that thickness (thinness!)?

I can't wait to run some wood through her...but I need to sort out the riving knife alignment and do further tests on the pulley alignments. I think it may be out a tad as the belt wobbles a fraction.

It really runs quietly though!

I understand from the kind people at the INCA forum that you can fit a mortiser to the spare holes on the buttocks end of the arbour and drive a mortising bit with it....the idea frightens the life out of me!

The mechanism for raising and lowering the blade is really beautiful...it actually raises and lowers the table....and the tilt does the same...I understand this is now banned in Europe...why would that be please?

I will try to get a wee video to show her in action shortly....but alignment first tomorrow when I can see better!

Anyone here got one of these minature marvels or know more about them?

Once again...thanks for the encouragement....I think I may just post my restoration of some oak doors...ummmm...into a workbench soon!

Jim



Jimi

 

[woody67]

Thanks for that Jim, for sharing your project and the exorbitant costs :wink: .............now then, where's my nearest carboot sale?..... :wink:
Just to say again fella, I think you've done yourself VERY proud and you should get yourself out this weekend on the hunt for another project.

Mark

 

[dickm]

Inca made some really nice kit back in the 70s. Their last agent in the UK was Bruce Pollard in Milton Keynes, but his machinery business folded some time in the 80s. I went to the sale of the stock - unfortunately, it was lotted up for commercial buyers, with 20 bandsaw tables or the like in one lot. So I suspect they raised a lot less than they might have had it been lotted better.
Startrite used to sell the saw you have in their livery. The raising/tilting table is a simple idea (Coronet used the same on their Consort saw and on the lathe attachments). But not ideal, because if you are using an outfeed support, you have to adjust it every time you change depth of cut, and running larger items across the slope for angled cuts is not easy. Which may be why ther are not CE approved?

But a really nice restoration job.

 

[jimi43]

Thanks for that Jim, for sharing your project and the exorbitant costs :wink: .............now then, where's my nearest carboot sale?..... :wink:
Just to say again fella, I think you've done yourself VERY proud and you should get yourself out this weekend on the hunt for another project.

Mark

Awww...thanks Mark...the kind words are really appreciated.

I restore mostly tools when I get a chance...I have the unnatural desire to get old planes and fix them up...this was a little out of my league!

Cheers

Jimi

 

[jimi43]

Inca made some really nice kit back in the 70s. Their last agent in the UK was Bruce Pollard in Milton Keynes, but his machinery business folded some time in the 80s. I went to the sale of the stock - unfortunately, it was lotted up for commercial buyers, with 20 bandsaw tables or the like in one lot. So I suspect they raised a lot less than they might have had it been lotted better.
Startrite used to sell the saw you have in their livery. The raising/tilting table is a simple idea (Coronet used the same on their Consort saw and on the lathe attachments). But not ideal, because if you are using an outfeed support, you have to adjust it every time you change depth of cut, and running larger items across the slope for angled cuts is not easy. Which may be why ther are not CE approved?

But a really nice restoration job.

Hi Dick....thanks hugely for the added information. For me the major part of a new restoration is the research and digging into a bygone age where engineering WAS engineering! I had heard of the Startrite connection and am digging into that as we speak. There is a Startrite dealer in the village who may know...I need to go check with him.

Your comment on the raising and lowering table make absolute sense now...silly me! Of COURSE that would be a huge problem and potentially dangerous...we wouldn't want any of our European cousins to hurt themselves now would we!!! :wink:

What amazes me is that the engineering that does all of this is very accurate...how it keeps square and level during the rise/fall action is beautiful. The big arm locks down the table once it is at the required height each time. I found that out when I didn't release this clutch pad mechanism and tried to raise and lower it!!

Cheers again for the information - I guess there might be a few of these knocking about but most seem to have migrated from the Alps to the USA!

Jim

 

[superunknown]

Thanks for sharing this with all your pictures, I love it. Its great to see this lovely old machine brought back to life. Would love to see the video soon.

2 years ago I spend the summer renovating a 1960 Wadkin AGS10". Completely stripped it down, every nut and bolt then re-sprayed it and fitted a new motor etc. Runs like a dream now and I loved every second of it.

 

[jonnymac]

Nice Restoration!

Regarding replacement blades, Inca unfortunately appears to be unique in its use of a 15mm Arbor, I have spent many hours scouring the internet for 15mm blades to no avail.

You have several options: 16mm blades are freely available - I use a few from another saw and pack the arbor with a piece of thin metal wound around - an old feeler gauge works well.

If buying new blades I would get a 20mm hole type and use a reducing washer - Trend make a good range of sizes at reasonable prices and some include reducers to 12.7 mm, you could open this up to 15mm if you have an accurate drill press or lathe. I recently bought a 140mm from tooled up.com their site is particularly helpful as it lists blades by diameter.

Unfortunately no one seems to make 175mm diameter blades (the ideal size) - I am lucky enough to have a few genuine Inca Blades the largest of which measures 178mm - I think you could get a 180mm in without fouling the riving knife ( I havent actually tried this just carefully measured the clearances) 184mm is too big - and would require a redesign of the knife to fit, not impossible just a bit of a fiddle.

The Inca catalogue lists a 181mm blade for non ferrous metals but I'm not sure if this is for use with the knife removed.

You may not be aware that this machine makes a really useful grooving tool with a blade of less than 145mm - you can raise the table to reveal as little blade as you like - not many modern tables will do this. I also have some off centre 'wobble' washers and a wider table insert for cutting wide grooves - haven't used it tho as the idea of it scares the **** out of me!

I also have some parts catalogues and brochures ( Great photos - think men in bad 70s knitwear smoking pipes while happily using a spotless Inca)

My Father in Law bought an Inca 250 back in the 70's - I recently did pretty much the same as you have done to it - restoring a Startrite base with motor for our original saw which we picked up from ebay, In fact we got a job lot of two saws, so having completed one each he now has no reason to lament giving me his old table saw.

Also Inca have a website for spares, you can contact them through: www.incamachines.com

Hope this helps

Jon

 

[Chris Knight]

Nice Restoration!


Also Inca have a website for spares, you can contact them through: www.incamachines.com

Hope this helps

Jon

Welcome to the forum Jon. After a couple more posts you will be able to post links.

 

[Racers]

Hi, jimi43


Can you get hold of a blade with a smaller hole and have it drilled out? I have had this done on a couple of blades. Its east to do you need a piece of bar the same size as the existing hole clamped in the chuck to center it, clamp the blade down swap to the correct sized drill and off you go, any engineering firm will be able to do it for you.

Pete

 

[jimi43]

Hi Jon

Thanks for posting the links and information my friend and indeed...welcome to the forum...although it is only a few weeks that I was welcomed here so warmly.

I would love to see some pictures if you have any...

Regarding blades...when I got the saw it had a rather ingenious bush...it is a bronze washer that is milled into a cone so that it can withstand being so thin (1mm) one side by the support of the metal on the other side. This is then put on the arbour before the plate and nut. Very clever.

This allows the use of 16mm bore blades which are freely available and indeed...I measured the clearance at full wind....and a 184mm fits fine:

I think this differs from your experience that it doesn't because apparently there are two types of riving knife...one wider (from the side) than the other and apparently I have the thinner knife.

Obviously I tried the clearance manually before I wound up the power but it cuts BRILLIANTLY...just check the result of this cut on some oak to produce some edge veneer....(this picture was not faked...it is the veneer placed alongside after the cut!)...

I was totally astounded that this saw... which has to be over 40 years old...cut this slither which is virtually uniform along the entire length without any variance....

and produced this....

Not bad eh!?

I was going to sell this machine but I am so very impressed with it, I think I will be keeping her....I may even go in search of a morticer to fit the holes just WAITING for it on the other side of the table!

I love the idea of the feeler gauge to make a shim though...mmm...good idea!

The grooving idea sounds brilliant....I must try that...will get a new blade off eBay....and let you know....

I read about "wobble" blades...they are frightening I must admit...I might try this once I get confident that all the dangers are covered. H&S in the sixties was not quite what it is now!

I would LOVE to see some pictures of the catalogues you have...any chance that you could scan some mate?

I really enjoyed your post and any other info you have would be most appreciated!

Cheers

Jimi

 

[jimi43]

Hi, jimi43


Can you get hold of a blade with a smaller hole and have it drilled out? I have had this done on a couple of blades. Its east to do you need a piece of bar the same size as the existing hole clamped in the chuck to center it, clamp the blade down swap to the correct sized drill and off you go, any engineering firm will be able to do it for you.

Pete

Hi Pete

There are 12mm bore blades but I think the ones sold are for small portable off-cut saws and I am not sure of the kerf/blade thickness profiles...obviously they have to span the riving knife thickness to work safely...the Freud 184/16mm does perfectly and I love Freud blades...

I have a fairly substantial drill press and a lathe (1900s Taylor) so may try your idea if the dimensions pan out...thanks for the tip - it makes perfect sense!

Cheers

Jimi

 

[jonnymac]

Interesting, thanks for your reply - we do seem to be running some kind of parallel project!

I was considering designing a new riving knife to accommodate a 184 blade as well as a brass washer with a small lip on it to allow 16mm hole blades to be mounted without messing about with shims. I'd really appreciate some closeups of your cone and knife to see if I was thinking along the right lines.

It will take me a while to make them as I have very little spare time at present, but its on the to do list!

That blade looks like its a real performer - it's a Freud? My Inca TCT comes close in accuracy but is not as well finished.

I'd be glad to put up some scans of the brochures/catalogues- I also have instructions and a price list dated 1981, this might take a few days to get together though, I'll try to take some shots of the saw too.

Jon

 

[jimi43]

Hi Jon

Thanks for the reply....

HERE (large pic) is a scan of the riving knife.

Tomorrow I will take some pictures with the cover off showing the relative positions of the blade and riving knife....there is plenty of clearance.

Obviously the bigger the blade one puts on it the more it sticks above the table at lowest point. I think you have to go right down in size to about 150mm before it will be flush...which is strange as the riving knife will then be miles away.

The more I find out about this baby the more it interests me. The INCA group (on YAHOO) has a wealth of information on this and the more popular 259 and morticer...there is also a jointer/planer. The one I want is the bandsaw...that is a nice bit of kit!

Yes that is a FREUD...I got it on eBay for a couple of quid. Really good deal. It has 40 teeth so for fine cuts as you can see! I replaced the brand new blade in both my Scheppach TS2010 and my rubbish MacAlister chop saw and it transformed them both...more so the rubbish B&Q machine turning it into a very useable and accurate tool.

Would love to see the pictures of your saw and scans of the brochures would be most informative and a hoot by the sound of it!

Cheers mate.

Jim

 

[dickm]

Just seen an advertisement for Inca from the early 1980s, and it seems that at that stage they were selling Kity machines with an Inca badge. Don't think that link-up can have lasted long.
Do any of you Inca fans know why their small bandsaw was "back-to-front", with the neck on the right hand side rather than on the left as per usual? I think I've read somewhere that this is normal for butchers' saws, and the one in our local butcher is certainly that way on.

 

[jimi43]

Just seen an advertisement for Inca from the early 1980s, and it seems that at that stage they were selling Kity machines with an Inca badge. Don't think that link-up can have lasted long.
Do any of you Inca fans know why their small bandsaw was "back-to-front", with the neck on the right hand side rather than on the left as per usual? I think I've read somewhere that this is normal for butchers' saws, and the one in our local butcher is certainly that way on.

You wouldn't have a link or a scan of that picture would you Dick?

It would make perfect sense when you think that KITY was French and INCA Swiss....KITY was pretty nice kit (no pun intended) until - like others - they sold their soul to the Eastern Devil.... :evil:

Jim

 

[jimi43]

Hi Jon

I managed to get some pictures of the FREUD 184mm in situ today...note there is a fair amount of clearance still....

The limit isn't the riving knife which I think could even go as far as 190mm blades but the base...as you can see it just misses it at full down position...

...even then I think I could risk a little more but I don't want to as knowing me I will forget which blade is in there and roll it down into the casing....heaven knows what mess that would cause!

This is the bronze washer. Basically I think it is a twin of the one that goes on the plate...probably a spare. But it centres the blade if you spin it as you are tightening the locking nut...

This is of course still very much a bodge job...I would feel safer if it was a shim or the correct diameter bore. I think I will get some TREND spacers and bore them out.....but it cuts really well at the moment so I guess if it ain't broke don't....etc!

Hope this helps...

Not sure why the neck on the INCA bandsaws are on the right hand side but I read somewhere that this is better for righthanded workers...being left handed my DeWalt suits me fine! At the end of the day I guess it is what you are use to...I don't think it makes much difference...

Cheers

Jim