Help with a wall-mounted folding table idea ...

[TobyB]

Can anyone help with this project?

I've been asked to make a table for a kitchen mounted on a 20" wide pillar that can fold away against the pillar, but open up for children to do their homework at, paint or make models at, etc ... and potentially be useful worktop addition for the kitchen.

I've looked on line searching on things like "folding table", here in the forums and general googling ... but not found anything that was too helpful (although the odd ideas) ...

This is the sort of thing I'm thinking of - this is just a hack-up and not even too scale, but the real thing might be 20" wide, 35.5" high (to match the other worktops, and thus 37.5-38" long when erected), perhaps made with 1" thick oak top (to match the other kitchen units) and the legs 1" deep and 2-3" wide (for strength, but allowing to fold down only 2" or so deep against the wall) ...

Is this a sensible design ... I'm thinking of haunched M&T joints to make the legs construct to give reasonable strength, and joining the legs and the top to the wall-mounting block with a long hinge to give a fair amount of torsional resistance to being leant on or bumped. Hoping the legs will "lock" square to the table top by simple abutment, but wondered about some sort of a turnbuckle squared-off block to prevent the table collapsing if the leg is bumped that would rotate clear to allow the legs to fold down flat to the table top.

Searched for long hinges ... I'd like a brass one 20" long - found some "continuous" "Piano" hinges for sale but you need to buy enormous quantities ... anybody have any suggestions for a source?

They wondered if I could make it wider? One idea I had was was to make two 5" wide leaves, again connected with hinges, and make the leg-construct only 10" wide centrally so it still all folded away. Concerned that this might loose a lot of stability with a narrower strut. Also ... how to lock the leaves out and yet it still fold flat ... wondered about transfixing rods through the leaf into the table top ... two or three perhaps each side ... but how to neatly store these would be an additional problem ... thought in the main table top ...

Another idea is to look out three or four of those "flush" double-pivot hinges used in boats and caravans to make two 5-10" wide leaves that would fold flat down onto the top when packed away (adding an additional 1" depth) and be fairly self-supporting when opened out by the abutment. I don't think the visible hinge on the table top would ruin the design, but worried if they'd be strong enough when being leant on in use. Narrower 5" leaves would put less strain on the hinges, but that'd look less neat when folded away ...

A third possibility would be making the unfolded table asymmetrical, with a whole duplicate table top unfolding to the right ... but can't think of how to support this with any legs/brackets that still folded away neatly ...

Has anyone built anything like this, seen any plans, can suggest any "commercial" versions to use ideas from, etc?

 

[OPJ]

Hi Toby,

I don't think there's much wrong with the original design. However, you will need to decide on how you're going to keep the top flat. That could mean using a sheet of veneered MDF with deeper, solid timber lippings around all four edges, perhaps. If you were to fix cleats underneath, they'd need to be positioned carefully enough so that they do not foul the legs when folded against the pillar.

You can buy cheap, brass-plated piano hinges, about £15 for a pack of 10 x 1m length. To be honest though, I wouldn't even bother with the solid brass ones. You should be fine with a series of brass butt hinges - the width of which is partly dependant on the overall thickness of the table top.

With regards to that piece fixed to the wall - is it worth making it deeper (6-8in wide?) so that the table can be used for ornamental purposes (to display items) when the top is down? That would also allow plenty of scope and clearance for everything underneath.

Not sure what to suggest to keep the legs from 'collapsing'... You could probably fit some kind of stays but, I'm not too sure and, they could work out expensive... I doubt they'd allow you to drill holes in the floor for locating feet. ;-)

Sounds like an interesting job. Hope we get to see more photos on this one in time.

 

[TobyB]

Hi Olly

Thanks for your thoughts.

Wouldn't a solid oak table top 1-1.5" thick made from jointing a board or three (probably with a few buried biscuits along their lengths) to make the top stay stable? I know there's no cleats, but I was thinking that long "piano" hinges screwed to either end and to the legs crossbar and to the mounting block would keep it flat. Maybe I need to re-think materials - no experience of veneering MDF, etc ...

Definitely not going to suggest taking an angle grinder to the floor tiles!

Like the idea of a wider mounting block that could act like a useful shelf - might take up more space than wanted when folded away however ...

 

[Ateallthepies]

How about doing away with the legs altogether and just use some of these fold flat brackets...http://www.screwfix.com/prods/56422/Iro ... -Pack-of-2 ?

These are very solid if fixed to a good vertical surface and hold 200 kg.

I have two fold down tables in my garage that are 600mm deep and they are very sturdy. Not the most elegant bracket I will admit but do a great job.

Folded flat, the top sits about 30mm from the wall. They also have two positions, flat and about 45 degrees.

If you want some pics of mine let me know?

Steve.

 

[Carlow52]

IKEA do a ideal folding 2 leg thingy with brace for this job, will try find a link later, legs are individually adjustable.

IMO 1" oak will be much 2 heavy and potentially dangerous with children.

Cant find them on the site, are in the legs dept if u near an ikea.

The screwfix brackets may not be ideal as they dont work well if subjected to a lot of horizontal pressure which will arise with kids
the horz leverage on a 36" table across brackets which may be at 16" centres would be considerable

In addition the 200kg rating assumes all the load delivered inside the angle of the bracket which will not be the case here

I find they work best when distance between brackets is greater than the 'overhang'

 

[knappers]

The screwfix brackets seem an ideal solution to me - two brackets would give you a 400Kg capacity.. way more than you will need.

Si.

 

[Ateallthepies]

The screwfix brackets seem an ideal solution to me - two brackets would give you a 400Kg capacity.. way more than you will need.

Si.

I am not 100% certain but I think it is 200 kg for the pair?

Steve

 

[knappers]

Should still be more than enough... that's almost two sixteen stone blokes sitting on the table, feet off the floor.

Si.

 

[Windy*miller]

I would be be nervous about using wall brackets. Essentially brackets are designed to carry vertical loads and if your working surface is a sensible length then you are going to be tending to twist the bracket out of the wall when you put any weight on the end of it. It might be strong enough, but that will depend to a large extent on the quality of the wall and the fixings you use. One day somebody will decide it's a convenient place to put the Christmas turkey for carving and you don't want that to end up on the floor, do you.

So, My advice is to stick with hinged legs, but I have a similar situation on some table extensions I made last year with hinged legs that I didn't want to put braces on and it's a constant pain. I wondered if you could get away with using longer legs and tuck them back at an angle so that they are hard against the wall where it meets the floor. It wouldn't be as strong as vertical legs and the extra length would make stowage more awkward but it but It might be a neat solution.